Upgrading mains feed from 15 to 22, how/who?

[henry13]

Block of 3 flats, one gf shop.

All fed via 15mm copper, have replaced all plumbing and now running 22mm throughout, to within 2 feet of underground mains water supply, to which a temporary connection has been made (new 22 to the old 15mm stub remaining)

The mains supply, type of pipe indeterminate as can not view, is terminated in a plastic connector / reducer of sorts, which is fairly large (an easy 40mm OD or more). Indicates that up to that point, the pipe must be reasonably substantial, certainly more than 15mm.

So now I have presumably 22+ mains supply, reduced to 15mm for a couple of feet, and back up to the new 22mm pipework.

Question is, how do I connect the 22mm direct to this connector, to eliminate the 15mm, and also should I be doing this or should Thames Water? Water will need closing from the street stopcock.

Thanks...

 

[Newboy]

Everything up to the meter/street stopcock is Thames Water, everything after is yours.

You need to identify what type of supply pipe you have and source a suitable connector to take you from supply to your internal 22mm

 

[henry13]

Many thanks for your reply, however the situation is ever so slightly complicated (in view of the advice you have provided)

The three flats are unmetered (yet) and if they will be, they will be internally metered, well inwards past the "problem" area. (So theoretically making a lot of the new plumbing the responsibility of Thames?)

What are the implications of this? Does the fact that they are unmetered make Thames responsible for hooking up to the connector?

I will try to upload an image of the connector.

Also, there IS a meter, that comes off the old 15 pipe in the "problem" zone and that meters the consumption for the shop/basement. Would this make the pipework from the connector to this meter Thames' responsibility?

The images:

First pic shows the general layout, mains supply is from the top left, flats feed bottom right, meter / rest is for the basement. That pic is a couple of weeks old, now there is 22 hooking up to the 15 flats feed.

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• henry13
• 20 Mar 2014
• 1

Second one shows the connector, the black ribbed thing with the blue sleeve practically in the middle of the picture.

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• henry13
• 20 Mar 2014
• 1

Thanks again.

PS Yes I know the basement supply via flexi is a bodge. I'm not responsible for it!

 

[Agile]

You seem to imagine that the water supplier assumes responsibility for internal pipework.

That is not the case!

But a meter CAN be fitted internally although they do not like that and greatly prefer to fit new meters in the street.

Working on mains pipework should be done by a water regs approved plumber or inspected by the water supplier.

Tony

 

[henry13]

You seem to imagine that the water supplier assumes responsibility for internal pipework.

That is not the case!

But a meter CAN be fitted internally although they do not like that and greatly prefer to fit new meters in the street.

Working on mains pipework should be done by a water regs approved plumber or inspected by the water supplier.

Tony

I imagine nothing, which is why I am here.

 

[Agile]

The three flats are unmetered (yet) and if they will be, they will be internally metered, well inwards past the "problem" area. (So theoretically making a lot of the new plumbing the responsibility of Thames?)

What are the implications of this? Does the fact that they are unmetered make Thames responsible for hooking up to the connector?

Thanks again.

I don't know what theory you are basing that statement on.

Newboy has corrected stated where the water supplier's responsibility ceases.

Tony

 

[henry13]

The three flats are unmetered (yet) and if they will be, they will be internally metered, well inwards past the "problem" area. (So theoretically making a lot of the new plumbing the responsibility of Thames?)

What are the implications of this? Does the fact that they are unmetered make Thames responsible for hooking up to the connector?

Thanks again.

I don't know what theory you are basing that statement on.

Newboy has corrected stated where the water supplier's responsibility ceases.

Tony

He said meter/stopcock.

Which is it?

Stopcock in the street?

Meter in the premises?

 

[stardanny]

After the street stopcock is the responsibility of owner of the building.

Meter can be fitted in each flats and have a radio signal pad run from inside meter to outside where meter reader take reading using signal from pad. That can be done by Thames Water.

Meters can be fitted in the street but you have to run new supply pipes from street to flats.

Daniel.

 

[henry13]

After the street stopcock is the responsibility of owner of the building.

Meter can be fitted in each flats and have a radio signal pad run from inside meter to outside where meter reader take reading using signal from pad. That can be done by Thames Water.

Meters can be fitted in the street but you have to run new supply pipes from street to flats.

Daniel.

Fantastic, thanks, very helpful advice.

So that's sorted then, the connection needs to be done by a plumber upon my instruction, I won't be contravening any regs.

I assume that "radio pad signal run..." does mean wireless, not any physical cable?

Any idea re that connector?

Thanks again.

 

[stardanny]

It's a cable that plug in on the meter and the cable run to where the pad is outside where meter reader can get the signal from pad to read it.

Connector I can't see very clear, where is the rising main stopcock?

Daniel.

 

[stardanny]

Ahh, I can see what it is.

Possible this? I might be wrong but look similar.

http://www.philmac.co.uk/products/universal-transition-couplings/

What on the other side of this? The upstream pipe one....

Daniel.

 

[henry13]

Oh, I don't think that running any cables will be possible.

It's not, actually.

Anyway.

Took a closeup pic of the connector, I could not get in there but camera could!

The OD is nominally 60mm. The white part is also similarly ribbed, although it's difficult to tell in the pic.

I'd hazard a guess that it's some form of compression join come (proper word censored out!) reducer and that perhaps the buried mains water pipe is plastic.

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• henry13
• 20 Mar 2014
• 1

The stopcock comes very shortly after that connection.

 

[Newboy]

I'd hazard a guess that your incoming mains supply is no bigger than 20mm.

As for that collection of carp attached to the other side of the meter - words fail me!

 

[stardanny]

That is better.

It is this one:
http://www.plasson.co.uk/gallery/upload/Product Information/Plass4_Data_Sheet.pdf

You have blue MDPE supply pipe, possible 25mm incoming main. Possible replaced lead water main in the past.

What I would is remove that and replace with plasson stopcock onto blue MDPE and 22mm into stopcock.

Daniel.

 

[henry13]

I'd hazard a guess that your incoming mains supply is no bigger than 20mm.

As for that collection of carp attached to the other side of the meter - words fail me!

Yes, the whole building was like that. Been at it for 3 years, literally ground up resto. Yesterday I discovered why connecting shop signs to new wiring now tripping RCD. The numpty who "wired" the shop signs, apart from consistently switching live and neutral, had a bit of a dilemma when faced with the "extra" wire, a.k.a. earth.

Unfazed, he just plonked it in with the live....

Only the fact that there was no earth back to board kept things running, and signs were not earthed anyway.