Utility Room electrics for Appliances

[ebee]

Yes, exactly.

Can you imagine the designer of the first 'double' socket being told that it only need cope with, say, 20A - 13A one side and 7A the other but also the other way round?

To daft to contemplate.

I would not try to warm a room up with two 3KW fan heaters plugged into one twin socket.
Actually I would shy away from running them on the same circuit usually or the same house if possible, you do not see as many of them as you used to do though but they are about.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Nevertheless 'they' made 'double' sockets.

What is different about two single sockets next to each other?

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, exactly. ... Can you imagine the designer of the first 'double' socket being told that it only need cope with, say, 20A - 13A one side and 7A the other but also the other way round?

As per all the debates/arguments, in terms of the temperature-rise test, that is almost (actually 14A + 6A, but still 20A total) what BS1363 was telling them was the 'minimum requirement' required to satisfy the Standard. However, it;'s worth remembering that that relates to a test involving the test currents flowing continuously for at least 4 hours.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes unless you are away from home at the time and on returning from your 14 days in the sun you come back to a fridge/freezer full of rotten food and burst pipes flooding the house. I have know those two scenarios happen to people (not commonly but nonetheless)

Life is full of the need for 'balances' and 'compromises'.

The vast majority of domestic premises are occupied for much more time than they are unoccupied, so I would personally very much favour coming down on the side of maximising 'protection' when the house was occupied (by NOT having a freezer on a 'dedicated' circuit). Not only is that, statistically, much more likely to avoid loss of freezer contents than would an approach which might be preferable when the premises are unoccupied, but the chances of anything 'tripping' say the circuit supplying a TV whilst the occupants were on holiday would presumably be extremely low?

 

[ebee]

Nevertheless 'they' made 'double' sockets.

What is different about two single sockets next to each other?

not much if any just the official rating of 13A per point

 

[ebee]

Life is full of the need for 'balances' and 'compromises'.

The vast majority of domestic premises are occupied for much more time than they are unoccupied, so I would personally very much favour coming down on the side of maximising 'protection' when the house was occupied (by NOT having a freezer on a 'dedicated' circuit). Not only is that, statistically, much more likely to avoid loss of freezer contents than would an approach which might be preferable when the premises are unoccupied, but the chances of anything 'tripping' say the circuit supplying a TV whilst the occupants were on holiday would presumably be extremely low?

Well really we were discussing the pros and cons and I was showing that there are differing scenarios and reasoning going into the mix. In fact I have not stated the possibilities of probabilities either. Just an observation of reasons for doing/not doing things.

 

[JohnW2]

Nevertheless 'they' made 'double' sockets. What is different about two single sockets next to each other?

Well, the two single sockets will be largely 'thermally separate' but I do doubt that makes a lot of difference.

Interestingly, the BS1363 temp-rise test for a single socket requires not only a 14A load going through the plug/socket but also an additional 6A going through the 'supply cable', so that the total in the cable is 20A

 

[pete01]

I usually wire the freezer circuit in with a claxon if it trips it wakes the whole street up and we all rush to save the frozen chips and chicken nuggets

 

[JohnW2]

Well really we were discussing the pros and cons and I was showing that there are differing scenarios and reasoning going into the mix. In fact I have not stated the possibilities of probabilities either. Just an observation of reasons for doing/not doing things.

Sure - and, in turn, I was pointing out how one can make a rational decision as to which of the approaches is, 'overall', the better one ..

If there are two approaches, A & B (freezer on 'dedicated circuit' or on 'TV etc. circuit') then if B gives more 'protection' than A against losing the freezer's contents for, say, 48 weeks of the year and A gives more such protection than B for, say, 4 weeks of the year, then one doesn't need to be a Statistician to work out 'which is the better bet' ('overall')

Kind Regards, John

 

[ebee]

Yes John a better bet for most of the population, however some will fall into opposing camps and some will think they do even if they don`t do , its a question of not just what folk think but why the think it. Sometimes folk will take a certain view then circumstances will conspire to take the opposite effect in some instances too.

 

[JohnW2]

Yes John a better bet for most of the population,

The only people for whom it would not be 'a better bet' would be those who leave their houses unoccupied for more than 26 weeks per year - and (for 'first homes') that must be incredibly rare, mustn't it?

'Second homes' in which a freezer is left running (and with contents) continuously (even during long periods of non-occupancy) are obviously a different matter- so, for them, the 'dedicated freezer circuit' might well be 'a better bet'.

however some will fall into opposing camps and some will think they do even if they don`t do , its a question of not just what folk think but why the think it. Sometimes folk will take a certain view then circumstances will conspire to take the opposite effect in some instances too.

I obviously can't do anything about people who think or act illogically or irrationally - I can merely point out what appears (at least to me) to be logical and rational!

 

[JohnD]

What is meant by a dedicated radial?

Surely not a separate circuit just for a single appliance.

In that sentence, I meant a dedicated circuit for the kitchen outlets

Instead of including them on the downstairs ring.

Although I am quite happy that my house was built with a dedicated cooker radial on each side of the kitchen, enabling the householder to choose.

On the non-cooker side, I use it for the FF.

 

[JohnW2]

Although I am quite happy that my house was built with a dedicated cooker radial on each side of the kitchen, enabling the householder to choose.

Two separate 'dedicated cooker radials'? If so, I wonder why?

A house I am currently working on has a single 'dedicated cooker radial' but with outlets ('cooker control units') on both sides of the kitchen, to allow such a 'user choice'.

 

[pete01]

Two separate 'dedicated cooker radials'? If so, I wonder why?

Easier I suppose with appliances on opposite sides of the room...

 

[JohnW2]

Easier I suppose with appliances on opposite sides of the room...

I suppose that depends where the CU is in relation to the two sides of the room, and what sort of floor it has.

In the house I mentioned, the CU feeds the outlet on one side of the kitchen, from where a bit of cable simply goes under the suspended wooden floor to feed the other outlet.