Vaillant ecoTEC 831 vs Worcester 30 CDi

[GuyStevens]

Hi all,

Has anyone any experience with either the Vaillant ecoTEC 831 or Worcester 30 CDi condensing combi's and, dare I say, have a preference?

I could not get any specs on the Vaillant from their website. My criteria is reliability (does the Worcester have a 2-year guarantee?) and quiet operation.

I live in a 3-bed, 1 bathroom (with shower) smallish house with a total of 2 occupants.

Many thanks for any advice.
Guy.

 

[Agile]

Boiler makers dont quote noise levels but older Vaillant combis were 48dB at 1 m and many other makes are more like 58 dB at 1 m. Its not just the noise level but the spectral distribution which is relevant.

Equally they certainly do not publicise their reliability either, its closely guarded. Its also difficult to standardise because there are so many parameters. Most of the calls for repairs under the warranty are caused by installer error, mostly no water treatment or no bypass.

A properly installer boiler has less than 1% chance of failing due to a real fault during the first year. Of course customers see it as failing when they forget to check the water pressure or turn off all the rads and overheat the boiler.

Tony Glazier

 

[ChrisR]

The half dozen Vaillants, and both Worcesters I put in in my first year, ALL failed in the first or second year of their lives. Safe to say none were my fault I think.
I saw an Eco Tec at a show - the V man said he hoped the Diverter Valve would be more reliable than the previous two models. I answered that the public would let V know after a year or two. He seemed to think it quite OK that the public do the testing. I wouldn't touch one just yet.

How about an Ideal Icos- they've got their bugs out now.

 

[Agile]

I do have to agree with Chris about the failure rate of certain models and my experiences of some models is on a par with his.

However, we do warranty repairs on one smaller brand and I can calculate the numbers sold in our area and the number of warranty calls I go out to and it really is very low, much lower than the figure I quoted above. None of this brand that I have fitted have ever failed!

Tony Glazier

 

[chrishutt]

So Tony, can't you tell us what the brand is? Go on...

 

[ChrisR]

None of the Pottertons I've fitted have failed early !

 

[Agile]

No, most definately not!

Firstly it would be contrary to the Moderators ( wrong ) interpretation of what constitutes " blatent advertising " which is prohibited under the " rules " ( guidelines ) of this web site and he would delete it anyway.

Secondly, I am not employed or paid to promote that brand so I dont. Furthermore they refuse to supply their boilers directly to us to sell.

Thirdly, it would be unfair to my friends at Vaillant and Ideal who have had a very unfortunate reliability experience of a single component in an otherwise reliable boiler, both of which have now been corrected and are hopefully giving the reliability expected of boilers.

It is not relevant what the brand is, just that most boilers are reliable if properly installed.

Tony Glazier

 

[doitall]

It is not relevant what the brand is, just that most boilers are reliable if properly installed.

Tony Glazier

Tongue firmly in cheek.

So hundreds of thousands of boilers are badly installed.

What absolute rubbish, thats just a get out of jail excuss for the crap design and the cheapest parts that money can buy to maximise profit.

 

[Agile]

The simple answer is yes! The vast majority of calls manufacturers get are as a result of incorrect installation, flue problems and lack of water treatment mostly with a few electrical connection problems too.

An example, one CORGI registered installer did the flue so badly that I could see the fault from 12 feet away. The same man only had a neon screwdriver and could not identify that the mains was reversed polarised. he though that if he had connected the brown wire to the live boiler input it would work.

This must be difficult for you to understand as you always do the job by the book but there are thousands out there who NEVER treat the water at all. One guy had three boilers with leaking pin seals because he had not treated the water in three weeks, you would have thought he would have learnt.

Why dont you go to the trade shows and you can talk to the manufacturers. Must go now as I am going to a trade morning!

Tony Glazier

 

[doitall]

Perhaps you could explain, sorry its a tad long but worth reading.

http://cgi.www.a1-gas.co.uk/index.h...-gas.co.uk/cgi-bin/www.a1-gas.co.uk/bbmat.cgi

just one example of a very long list of manufacturer faults.

 

[ChrisR]

Which thread dia - link brings up the whole forum ?

 

[doitall]

Which thread dia - link brings up the whole forum ?

All Glow-warm owners Mar3 2004 near the bottom

 

[ollski]

Which thread dia - link brings up the whole forum ?

All Glow-warm owners Mar3 2004 near the bottom

And that's for a micron which isn't too bad for a glowy.....what is going to happen when folks realise what rubbish the new stuff like hxi's are?

 

[ChrisR]

Sounds just like the Suprima pcb problem, or barcelona, etc etc.

Its hard to generalise but I would avoid boilers whch have been in production less than say 2-3 years. GW changed that board when they became part of Hepworth/with Vaillant, the new boards are made in the same place as the V ones. BUt how many years was that? And how long have Suprimas been out??

COnlusion has to be that boiler choice is a bit of a lottery, but by being prudent you can tip the odds in your favour.


I wonder if TG is referring to Biasi boilers. I remember teasing about a clutch of 4 I came across. They HAD been put in by Vlad the Installer, but you couldn't blame him for the gas valves and fans they needed very soon.

 

[GuyStevens]

I guess the upshot of all this, and the answer to my question, is neither!

Are the problems mentioned, related to the push for greater efficiency and if so, should I go for a lower efficiency model? Are there any comparable alternatives to the Vaillant and Worcester anyone would recommend?

Is there one brand/model that is held in universal regard or should I just play the boiler lottery?

Thanks again,
Guy.