Vegan babies

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P.S You do know that B12 is killed off when heated, don't you? :roll:

No its isnt :?


Microwave, processed foods are irradiated and cold messes it up also, along with oxygen and light.

B12 is water soluble as we know so it's lost mainly in the cooking process, that what's left.


But we need more than b12 don't we? and neither plant nor animals produce it....

http://www.physics.isu.edu/radinf/food.htm[/QUOTE]

On average 6% is lost through cooking.

It doesnt occur naturally in foods, but is added to animal feed, and is present in almost all meats

"Because cobalamin is affected by temperatures above 100 degrees Celsius, some or all of this B vitamin is lost when meat is cooked."

"It is heat stable in neutral solutions, but it is destroyed by heat in both acid and alkaline mediums. It is also sensitive to light and is destroyed by heavy metals and strong oxidizing and reducing agents."

http://www.dsm.com/en_US/downloads/dnp/51610_fort_basics_stability.pdf

So meat eaters are also reliant on supplemented B12..? :roll:
 
Vitamin B12 is stable to heat, but slowly loses its activity when exposed to light, oxygen and acid or alkali-containing environments. Loss of activity during cooking is due to the water solubility of vitamin B12 (loss through meat juices or leaching into water) rather than to its destruction.
 
Vitamin B12 is stable to heat, but slowly loses its activity when exposed to light, oxygen and acid or alkali-containing environments. Loss of activity during cooking is due to the water solubility of vitamin B12 (loss through meat juices or leaching into water) rather than to its destruction.

This all depends on the cooking method :roll:

Have you not read what was given to you on a plate?


"Because cobalamin is affected by temperatures above 100 degrees Celsius, some or all of this B vitamin is lost when meat is cooked."

"It is heat stable in neutral solutions, but it is destroyed by heat in both acid and alkaline mediums. It is also sensitive to light and is destroyed by heavy metals and strong oxidizing and reducing agents."
 
Vitamin B12 is stable to heat, but slowly loses its activity when exposed to light, oxygen and acid or alkali-containing environments. Loss of activity during cooking is due to the water solubility of vitamin B12 (loss through meat juices or leaching into water) rather than to its destruction.

This all depends on the cooking method :roll:

Have you not read what was given to you on a plate?


"Because cobalamin is affected by temperatures above 100 degrees Celsius, some or all of this B vitamin is lost when meat is cooked."

"It is heat stable in neutral solutions, but it is destroyed by heat in both acid and alkaline mediums. It is also sensitive light and is destroyed by heavy metals and strong oxidizing and reducing agents."

Up to 30% destroyed by the most excessive cooking methods. Light has no issue if its packaged well. The vitamin is a bacteria.

But back to your original comment....."P.S You do know that B12 is killed off when heated, don't you?"

and again........no it isnt :?
 
Vitamin B12 is stable to heat, but slowly loses its activity when exposed to light, oxygen and acid or alkali-containing environments. Loss of activity during cooking is due to the water solubility of vitamin B12 (loss through meat juices or leaching into water) rather than to its destruction.

This all depends on the cooking method :roll:

Have you not read what was given to you on a plate?


"Because cobalamin is affected by temperatures above 100 degrees Celsius, some or all of this B vitamin is lost when meat is cooked."

"It is heat stable in neutral solutions, but it is destroyed by heat in both acid and alkaline mediums. It is also sensitive light and is destroyed by heavy metals and strong oxidizing and reducing agents."

Up to 30% destroyed by the most excessive cooking methods. Light has no issue if its packaged well. The vitamin is a bacteria.

But back to your original comment....."P.S You do know that B12 is killed off when heated, don't you?"

and again........no it isnt :?

I suppose you cook all your meat in a PH neutral solutions? Like I said " It all depends on the cooking method."

"It is heat stable in neutral solutions, but it is destroyed by heat in both acid and alkaline mediums"

So as it stands both meat and vegan diets rely on B12 supplemented. Animals you eat are supplemented, some by injection and some by feed..

So a vegan diet can get everything it needs without meat.
 
Mine are teenagers and would kill me if I did that to them.
Let the little one grow as nature intended and let him choose when he is older.
As always with this discussion we were meant to be omnivores.

I do let my kids make their own mind, my girls eat meat.

The omnivore argument is very weak since evolution didn't intend us to eat large amounts of meat and I would expect everyone to eat it raw. We evolved when we needed to eat what was around but still our bodies only produce a certain amount of digestive enzymes in a life time. The cooking process alone kills off these enzymes and our bodies have to work over time to produce them to digest our food. This causes health problems.

It's an ethical thing for me.

What a total load of tosh, without being meat eaters, we'd still be living in caves. eating meat has made practically everything around you.

When we started husbandry, we didn't have to hunt for huge amount of time for food. this gave us time to build communities, this lead rise to towns and cities and gave us time to invent stuff rather than just scratching around for an existence, all veggies and vegans who say it's an ethical thing are total hypocrites... or deluded.
 
Mine are teenagers and would kill me if I did that to them.
Let the little one grow as nature intended and let him choose when he is older.
As always with this discussion we were meant to be omnivores.

I do let my kids make their own mind, my girls eat meat.

The omnivore argument is very weak since evolution didn't intend us to eat large amounts of meat and I would expect everyone to eat it raw. We evolved when we needed to eat what was around but still our bodies only produce a certain amount of digestive enzymes in a life time. The cooking process alone kills off these enzymes and our bodies have to work over time to produce them to digest our food. This causes health problems.

It's an ethical thing for me.

What a total load of tosh, without being meat eaters, we'd still be living in caves. eating meat has made practically everything around you.

When we started husbandry, we didn't have to hunt for huge amount of time for food. this gave us time to build communities, this lead rise to towns and cities and gave us time to invent stuff rather than just scratching around for an existence, all veggies and vegans who say it's an ethical thing are total hypocrites... or deluded.

We know all about our history and evolution, we are still evolving you know..
 
Mine are teenagers and would kill me if I did that to them.
Let the little one grow as nature intended and let him choose when he is older.
As always with this discussion we were meant to be omnivores.

I do let my kids make their own mind, my girls eat meat.

The omnivore argument is very weak since evolution didn't intend us to eat large amounts of meat and I would expect everyone to eat it raw. We evolved when we needed to eat what was around but still our bodies only produce a certain amount of digestive enzymes in a life time. The cooking process alone kills off these enzymes and our bodies have to work over time to produce them to digest our food. This causes health problems.

It's an ethical thing for me.

What a total load of tosh, without being meat eaters, we'd still be living in caves. eating meat has made practically everything around you.

When we started husbandry, we didn't have to hunt for huge amount of time for food. this gave us time to build communities, this lead rise to towns and cities and gave us time to invent stuff rather than just scratching around for an existence, all veggies and vegans who say it's an ethical thing are total hypocrites... or deluded.

We know all about our history and evolution, we are still evolving you know..

of course we are, its not unethical to kill animals, we are one. just happen to be at the top of the food chain, yes your anatomy fully indicates that we are omniverous, but it is also true, that we are not well adapted to high quantites of meat. It's all about balance, i for one have absolutely no problems with eating meat, and have no time for radical veggies.
 
Mine are teenagers and would kill me if I did that to them.
Let the little one grow as nature intended and let him choose when he is older.
As always with this discussion we were meant to be omnivores.

I do let my kids make their own mind, my girls eat meat.

The omnivore argument is very weak since evolution didn't intend us to eat large amounts of meat and I would expect everyone to eat it raw. We evolved when we needed to eat what was around but still our bodies only produce a certain amount of digestive enzymes in a life time. The cooking process alone kills off these enzymes and our bodies have to work over time to produce them to digest our food. This causes health problems.

It's an ethical thing for me.

What a total load of tosh, without being meat eaters, we'd still be living in caves. eating meat has made practically everything around you.

When we started husbandry, we didn't have to hunt for huge amount of time for food. this gave us time to build communities, this lead rise to towns and cities and gave us time to invent stuff rather than just scratching around for an existence, all veggies and vegans who say it's an ethical thing are total hypocrites... or deluded.

We know all about our history and evolution, we are still evolving you know..

of course we are, its not unethical to kill animals, we are one. just happen to be at the top of the food chain, yes your anatomy fully indicates that we are omniverous, but it is also true, that we are not well adapted to high quantites of meat. It's all about balance, i for one have absolutely no problems with eating meat, and have no time for radical veggies.
 
Mine are teenagers and would kill me if I did that to them.
Let the little one grow as nature intended and let him choose when he is older.
As always with this discussion we were meant to be omnivores.

I do let my kids make their own mind, my girls eat meat.

The omnivore argument is very weak since evolution didn't intend us to eat large amounts of meat and I would expect everyone to eat it raw. We evolved when we needed to eat what was around but still our bodies only produce a certain amount of digestive enzymes in a life time. The cooking process alone kills off these enzymes and our bodies have to work over time to produce them to digest our food. This causes health problems.

It's an ethical thing for me.

What a total load of tosh, without being meat eaters, we'd still be living in caves. eating meat has made practically everything around you.

When we started husbandry, we didn't have to hunt for huge amount of time for food. this gave us time to build communities, this lead rise to towns and cities and gave us time to invent stuff rather than just scratching around for an existence, all veggies and vegans who say it's an ethical thing are total hypocrites... or deluded.

We know all about our history and evolution, we are still evolving you know..

of course we are, its not unethical to kill animals, we are one. just happen to be at the top of the food chain, yes your anatomy fully indicates that we are omniverous, but it is also true, that we are not well adapted to high quantites of meat. It's all about balance, i for one have absolutely no problems with eating meat, and have no time for radical veggies.

So why bother posting..? :roll:
 
to highlight the error of your ways. for instance do you ever take any medication? wear or use leather products, drink beer, eat cheese (sorry, vegan, no you wouldn't) ensure that what you eat hasn't been grown with animal derived fertilisers.
 
An interesting read:
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/vegetarian.html

[cough]vitamin B12[/cough]

"However, B12 deficiency is far more common than most health care practitioners and the general public realize. Data from the Tufts University Framingham Offspring Study suggest that 40 percent of people between the ages of 26 and 83 have plasma B12 levels in the low normal range – a range at which many experience neurological symptoms. 9 percent had outright deficiency, and 16 percent exhibited “near deficiency”. Most surprising to the researchers was the fact that low B12 levels were as common in younger people as they were in the elderly."

http://chriskresser.com/b12-deficiency-a-silent-epidemic-with-serious-consequences

Another reason foods are fortified. :roll:


"What Every Vegan Should Know About Vitamin B12

Very low B12 intakes can cause anaemia and nervous system damage.

The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals) and B12 supplements. Vitamin B12, whether in supplements, fortified foods, or animal products, comes from micro-organisms.

Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid anaemia and nervous system damage, but many do not get enough to minimise potential risk of heart disease or pregnancy complications.

To get the full benefit of a vegan diet, vegans should do one of the following:

eat fortified foods two or three times a day to get at least three micrograms (μg or mcg) of B12 a day or
take one B12 supplement daily providing at least 10 micrograms or
take a weekly B12 supplement providing at least 2000 micrograms.

If relying on fortified foods check the labels carefully to make sure you are getting enough B12. For example, if a fortified plant milk contains 1 microgram of B12 per serving then consuming three servings a day will provide adequate vitamin B12. Others may find the use of B12 supplements more convenient and economical.

The less frequently you obtain B12 the more B12 you need to take, as B12 is best absorbed in small amounts. The recommendations above take full account of this. There is no harm in exceeding the recommended amounts or combining more than one option."

http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/nutrition/b12.aspx[/QUOTE]

I have known vegans who actually have the honesty to admit they take B12 supplements.

(see my previous link):
Vitamin B-12 is unique among vitamins in that while it is found universally in foods of animal origin, where it is derived ultimately from bacteria, there is no active vitamin B-12 in anything which grows out of the ground. Where vitamin B-12 is found on plants it is there only fortuitously in bacterial contamination.

Bacteria in the human colon make prodigious amounts of vitamin B-12. Unfortunately, this is useless as it is not absorbed through the colon wall. Dr. Sheila Callender (14) tells of treating vegans who had severe vitamin B-12 deficiency by making water extracts of their stools which she fed to them, thus affecting a cure. An Iranian vegan sect unwittingly also makes use of the fact that human stools contain vitamin B-12. Investigators could not understand how members of this sect remained healthy until their investigations showed that they grew their vegetables in human manure — and then ate the vegetables without being too fussy about washing them first (15) .

To enable vegans to survive, vitamin B-12 is added artificially to breakfast cereals in Britain and may be bought in pill form. This is hardly a natural way to get food and in many cases it is self-defeating. Vitamin B-12 is also unlike all other vitamins in that it occurs as a number of analogues, only one of which, cyanocobalamin , is active for humans. In collecting human stools for analysis Dr. Victor Herbert found that of each one hundred micrograms of vitamin B-12 extracted, only five micrograms was of the cyanocobalamin analogue (16) . Thus even in this most prodigious source of the vitamin ninety-five percent was composed of analogues which were useless.
And:
In England a carefully conducted study (18) carried out on vegans showed that they all got vitamin B-12 deficiency eventually.
 
eating meat has made practically everything around you.

tumblr_ks755iLkMl1qzzxaqo1_500.jpg



When we started husbandry, we didn't have to hunt for huge amount of time for food. this gave us time to build communities, this lead rise to towns and cities and gave us time to invent stuff rather than just scratching around for an existence

And now technology has allowed us to move away from that lifestyle to a veggie one if we choose to. Just because an agriculture meat based diet allowed us to move from being tribesmen to city dwellers, doesn't mean we have to stick with that method of food production in the modern world, if you put aside any nutritional arguments, then you are doing so for nothing but sentimental reasons.

The same as how some people today go out in the fields and forests scrubbing for "natural food".

I personally don't really care if someone eats meat or not, but I tire of these arguments that (in the modern world) either diet can't be healthy.

all veggies and vegans who say it's an ethical thing are total hypocrites... or deluded.

Could you wipe your mouth please, it's frothing.
 
to highlight the error of your ways. for instance do you ever take any medication? wear or use leather products, drink beer, eat cheese (sorry, vegan, no you wouldn't) ensure that what you eat hasn't been grown with animal derived fertilisers.


Guilty as accused, i tried to get away from wearing leathers on my bike so bought lightweight cordura or something similar, GREAT in the winter, however in the summer you sweat ur wotsits off :? so it has to be leather, secondly i drink guiness, it is not vegetarian :? unfortunatly there is no substitute.
 
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