Walls are just dust under plasterboard

[murphy1989]

Hi.

I’m trying to put up rails on our party wall (1910 terrace). I drilled a hole, wall plug in and everything was going fine.

as soon I’ve put any weight on it the whole thing has come out the wall. It appears that under the plaster was just this dust, maybe old cement mix? Not sure? Can anyone advise?

I’ve drilled deeper and still not brick either. Can anyone advise a potential solution?

pic attached

thanks

 

[Deleted member 174758]

It might be early concrete, which can be really awful, ropey stuff (it was the 1930s before some builders began to understand it - I'm convinced some still have issues with it). Another possibility is cinder block, although that really only came to the fore in the 1930s AFAIK, although a WW2 or early postwar repair is always a possibility. It may be necessary to double or triple plug (and use longer scrwes) or even "glue" any wood plugs in place using a grip adhesive (e.g Grip-Fil) then leave it to go off 24 to 48 hours in the cold weather to get a decent fix. Depends on the weight you are trying to hold

 

[murphy1989]

That was my first though but it’s pretty deep. I’ve drilled right through without hitting any brick.

is my best option just do to give up on hanging the rail and fill the hole?

 

[JP_]

I feel like this is a daft question, but what do you mean by rail? Like a picture rail? Maybe just glue it with No More Nails, with a could of screws into the plasterboard to help hold it in place while the glue sets?

 

[bernardgreen]

Resin anchors might work, two of them hold my wash basin to a rubble and mortar wall which has voids in it.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/easyfix-kem-psc-175-ef-chemical-resin-175ml/5650J is one type. there are others

I use own brand from http://www.anglianfasteners.co.uk/index.php?page=construction-fixings

 

[murphy1989]

Thanks the reply’s all.

The rails are clothes rails. It was a basic DIY built in wardrobe job. The weight of the clothes just ripped it right out.

guessing it’s a case of fill, sand and buy a wardrobe

 

[JohnD]

Show us the fitting please. A clothes rail has to be bracketed off the wall by 250-300mm which depending on geometry can apply leverage to pull out fixings.

 

[murphy1989]

In work at mo but it’s the attached clothes rail just screwed straight into the wall.

should I be doing something else?

 

[JohnD]

That is designed to pull the screws out. Just like a claw hammer.

If you fixed a batten to the wall, going higher than the rail, preferably up to the ceiling, the load on the screws would be almost vertical, rather than pull-out, which they can withstand.

Even turning the rail up the other way would be better.

Something like the spur shelving system is very good, I don't know if they do a clothes rail accessory.

 

[murphy1989]

Right okay. So it’s just a poor design? Should I just look at getting something else?

I can see how it’s just pull the screws out when you put weight on it.

 

[murphy1989]

That is designed to pull the screws out. Just like a claw hammer.

If you fixed a batten to the wall, going higher than the rail, preferably up to the ceiling, the load on the screws would be almost vertical, rather than pull-out, which they can withstand.

Even turning the rail up the other way would be better.

Something like the spur shelving system is very good, I don't know if they do a clothes rail accessory.

Right okay. So if I batten right from ceiling to the ceiling. Would I be able to then secure row of those rails onto the batten? Seems like a sensible way of going it.

 

[JohnD]

Yes.

But have a look at Spur, you will see what I mean. The leverage from a shelf reduces the lower the shelf is from the fixing. The top screws are the most important, until they have pulled out, the lower ones have no pull-out force on them. So on the top shelf you only put very light stuff.

If the shelf is above the fixing, that's worst for pull-out leverage.

 

[foxhole]

Ditch the bracket , line either end with mdf panel and run standard clothes rail between the two sides.

 

[securespark]

I’ve drilled right through without hitting any brick.

Right through the party wall??