warm air replacement

[wolfman1]

Once we finally get into our new house (solicitors!) one of the first jobs is to get the heating replaced, currently it has a Johnson and Starley JGD50 65, we are sticking with the warm air.
Roughly, what should i be paying to have the unit replaced with similar size but with facility to heat water and one radiator and fitted with electrostatic filters? I am told it should be about half the cost of replacing with a fully wet system, but these vary in price enormously, and i would have tghought it would be much easier to replace the warm air unit.

Thanks

 

[simond]

To replace like for like broadly £2200, that is for a simple J65 with no water heater open flued.

To add hot water and a radiator rather depends on where and what needs to be run, so is impossible to give any meaningful idea.

The fact that you know a water can be fitted, and a radiator to the primaries suggests someone has already specified a solution for you.

By far the safest option is to fit a room sealed heater, which J&S call Economaire. This can have an internal water heater at this size.

Finally, Lennox US now import a condensing up to the minute warm air unit, giving a claimed 94% efficiency. It has a varispeed fan and two stage burner.

 

[wolfman1]

thanks, i have done some research with regard to what is available, how would you break down the £2200? parts v labour, seems alot for a days work? are the units very expensive? I have budgeted around £3000 for the replacement with hot water (tank is directly above heater, and rad needs to go in dowstairs bathroom, but i could fit this myself to keep in budget)

 

[Boilerman2]

As it would be illegal for you to carry out this work yourself, you will need to use a contractor, £2000 -2500 would seem a reasonable amount for the work, and arguing about material vs labour will only antagonise your heating engineer, you dont get 'owt for nought!!

 

[^woody^]

Remember that the building regulations would require an efficient condensing boiler to be fitted unless an assessment has been carried out to prove that the condensing boiler is impractical or costs exceptionally high

 

[simond]

thanks, i have done some research with regard to what is available, how would you break down the £2200?

I wouldn't break it down. It is complicated and includes my costs of running a business. You wouldn't ask Tescos how much they bought your finest Coleslaw for, would you?

Remember that the building regulations would require an efficient condensing boiler to be fitted unless an assessment has been carried out to prove that the condensing boiler is impractical or costs exceptionally high

Assuming you are not in the trade and therefore didn't know, warm air heaters are exempt from the condensing rules. No assessments are required.

 

[^woody^]

.... warm air heaters are exempt from the condensing rules. No assessments are required.

IIRC, they are only exempt if they meet BS5864-2004 - would/does this system automatically meet this standard without assessment?

 

[simond]

Domestic gas warm air heaters meet Part L Building regs due to a blanket exemption from HM Government.

This is part of the energy efficiency course for all installers.

If you are interested, so do conventional water boilers when part of a range cooker.

No assessment is therefore required as there are no criteria to be calculated.

 

[wolfman1]

No I am not in The Trade, I am a mechanical engineer. I did know that they are exempt (research). and i don't think it would be illegal to fit a radiator, would it?
As for breaking the price down, i would probably like to see what i am paying for, as my customers in my trade like to, if asked i would explain the mark up on parts and the labour rates. Being open can "warm" the customer to you, he knows you have a living to make.
Hypotheticly speaking, if the warm air unit cost £700 trade plus mark up at 30% and it takes a day to fit, i would say that £2200 was expensive from a labour point of view, working out to £100+ per hour, more than enough to run a business. If it were a two day job, then thi would't be so bad.
I wouldn't want owt for nowt, but i think it fair to know what you are paying for. Mind you i did try and get a conservatory price breakdown and failed, but hey, they were probably charging £8000 just to erect the thing.
I just wouldn't want to get overcharged.

 

[simond]

I very much doubt someone will charge too much; at the end of the day the heating installer comes to you for nothing, spends an hour with you and (usually) seriously wants your business.

None of us want to go to the trouble of a site visit without winning your custom, and if we are to win it we have to be competitive but not sacrifice standards to do so.

It is a competitive market out there, especially at the moment. Get two proposals are compare and contrast.

As I said before, the room sealed heater is a much safer option and is worth paying extra for.

 

[wolfman1]

I would hope this would be the case, but you do see huge price variations for what appears to be the same job, and i don't always believe in "you get what you pay for" so now i need a recomended person to do the job, in the Peterborough area, it seems difficult to find any one who specialises in warm air heating, i found one in Hull, who are willing to do the job, but i would prefer a local company.

i am not sure what is meant by room sealed, and how this is safer?

 

[simond]

A room sealed WAU is similar to a modern hydronic gas boiler is so far as the combustion process is sealed to outside the property, using a concentric flue to provide combustion air in and out.

Your current WAU is effectively an open gas fire, so spillage is a risk if a fault develops or poor maintenance is carried out.

I don't know if you have seen 'huge price variations' but if this is to be believed then you must already have your quotes. Time to get off the fence.

 

[wolfman1]

You have me all wrong, the huge price variations were a generalisation about all things, the conservatories i have looked at range from £12000-£23000, or £5000 to fit myself and believe me the £18000 one didn't look any better than the £12000 (didn't even bother looking at the £23000).
All i was looking for was a rough guide before i have people around to price the job up. I have never had CH fitted before, ever, so was hoping for a few ideas on how much the job would cost and how that cost would be broken down parts and labour, you know, how much is the heater to buy, and how much to fit, how much extra for the hot water and radiator.

There is no conspiracy here, can't understand why there would be either. If i had prices I would say, no reason not to.

I think this is more to do with the secrets of the trade, that is not leting on how much the tradesperson is making out of the job, i'm guesssing but i doubt the unit would cost more than say £1000, and one company say installation would only take a day (on there website), this puts a different perspective on the install cost?

So bite me for wanting clarity on what i'm paying for and trying not to get screwed.

 

[wolfman1]

so does any one have any experience with replacing warm air units, ie how much the unit should cost and a fair cost of installation, I know our friend doesn't want to break it down, but I realy would like to know what i'm going to be paying for, to be honest i don't even know a gas fitters going rate.

 

[swbjackson]

You're going to pay more for a warm air unit exchange. There are a lot less engineers with the qualification around so you have to pay a premium. The job may only take 1 day but did it state how many people they were using to do the job?

Cost of the unit is irrelevant anyway, you can't go to a shed and buy one yourself. Just get a couple of quotes for the job. If anyone is happy yo tell you the cost of the unit then that's up to them.