Water supply shut-off in block of flats

[YorkshireMidge]

Got a bit of a strange one here and wondered if anyone could shed any light?

The situation is a three story block of flats, where the management company and the water company have previously managed to identify stop taps in the street for MOST of the flats, apart from a handful in one wing. I'm wanting to move the individual stop tap in our flat (the flat is needless to say, one that has NOT been identified in the street), so I need to shut it off. Our flat is on the top floor and the cold pipe disappears down a small soil pipe riser in the bathroom.

I've had a really good rummage around the building and out on the street and can find no trace of any OTHER boxes where stop taps might lurk either. My only conclusion is perhaps they simply ran a single pipe from a single stop tap, up each riser (i.e. so it's feeding three flats the same as the soil stack seems to) - and when checks were done to identify which tap fed which flat, it wasn't very thorough. But I can't imagine the water company wouldn't have thought of this possibility, if it's something that is routinely done.

I had to open up a tiled box section in the bathroom to find where the pipe went in ours so I can't expect the flat owners below to let me do the same to see if there is a T into the same pipe, or a separate one! Flats were built in the 80s and I have to say the builder in question isn't renowned for the highest quality of work.

My only idea to try and get to the bottom of this is to drop one of those fibre optic inspection cameras down the riser, as I can't actually position myself to see down it. So I thought I'd ask on here what the probability of a shared pipe actually is.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Agile]

In an ideal world the flats would all have an individual supply in the 80s.

But what they actually did ....

You first imply there are stopcocks with no allocation?

If so would seem to be one of those?

Tony

 

[YorkshireMidge]

Sorry if I wasn't clear Tony - they have identified all the existing external stop taps right around the building and mapped them onto most flats, but apparently could not locate any external stop taps for ours and a small number of others. So EITHER there is a pavement box somewhere non-one has found - perhaps hidden or tarmac'd over or something - OR as I'm suggesting, perhaps they didn't check properly whose water had gone off and some are shared. I'm hoping to get my hands on the diagram the water company drew up for the whole building when they were trying to sort the problem some time back, so I can see if there is a pattern - now I know where the pipes run in the building (they probably didn't).

 

[oilboffin]

Have a word with the water company see if they can shed some light on the matter,and find the stop cocks if they are buried they'll find them.

 

[YorkshireMidge]

That's the point Oilboffin - they have already been out and tried, and failed - but I'm getting the information secondhand, long after the event. All I can say is I have combed the footpaths around the flats too and there is no sign of any further pavement boxes. That's why I was looking for a view on how common sharing is in flats as I have come across pairs of semi detached fed off one supply before.

 

[Agile]

It was the norm with lead pipes.

Variable with other metal and dark plastic.

Mostly individual with blue poly pipe!

So it is anyone's guess.

There were usually stopcocks either just inside the boundary or at the inlet location just inside the block!

Tony

 

[YorkshireMidge]

Thanks Tony. I've had a really good look both inside and outside the boundary, and not a thing. Nothing within the block either that I've found. Even tried the builder who is still in business, but they don't have plans that far back.

So I've just spent a tenner on a cheap Chinese borescope camera which I can plug into my laptop, and have a look down the riser to see how the flat below is fed. Worth a punt I figured.

 

[slippyr4]

You could ask for a water meter to be installed; then they'll have to figure it out one way or another.

 

[FiremanT]

OP: It is not at all unusual for there to be a common riser, controlled by one valve. Have you asked your neighbours in the flats below yours if they have been told where THEIR cock is. If so, turn off that one,and see if your water is cut off.

But warn the neighbours below first

 

[YorkshireMidge]

@slippyr4

Afraid they won't! There is already one there - and it's our side of the stop tap we have WITHIN the flat anyway (followed by a quarter turn isolation valve of the type that leaks....), so they won't have ever have needed to stop the water in the street.

The meter is linked to the problem I'm trying to solve. The stop tap we have WITHIN the flat is behind a small panel secured with a screw, very low down, in tiled box structure in the bathroom, hiding all the other pipes - so when they installed the meter, it went in the same hole. So now its even harder to get to the stop tap than it was before, and even more difficult to read the meter as it faces up into the void. To read it the other week, I was up to my elbows in the void with my smartphone camera on timer, to actually photograph the top of the meter blind.

So my plan was to shut the water off in the street, cut the flat stop tap out, and take the pipework to the top of the box section where I'd cut it open and have a new stop tap, the meter, and a decent quarter-turn lever valve all nicely accessible under a lift up lid. Simples....or not, as it turns out.

Worst case, I could leave the stop tap where it is and just shift the meter etc, which would certainly improve matters. But I want to get to the bottom of the problem in case I ever need to shut it off in an emergency.

 

[YorkshireMidge]

OP: It is not at all unusual for there to be a common riser, controlled by one valve. Have you asked your neighbours in the flats below yours if they have been told where THEIR cock is. If so, turn off that one,and see if your water is cut off.

But warn the neighbours below first

Thanks - handy to know. The management company have a diagram from the previous efforts at sorting this, and the neighbours won't know any more than them. I left a message today to have a copy posted to me. But yes, the intention would be to test it.

 

[endecotp]

Never done it myself, but maybe a listening stick (google it!) applied to each of the known outside stop taps while your taps are running will give you a clue.

 

[YorkshireMidge]

Never done it myself, but maybe a listening stick (google it!) applied to each of the known outside stop taps while your taps are running will give you a clue.

Interesting device! Never heard of one of those before and it could come in handy, as it turns out there are 6 flats in total affected.

 

[YorkshireMidge]

A bit of progress this evening as I now have the results of the water company's last efforts (attached). It seems the missing stop taps are for the last six flats at the end of one wing (i.e. the end two on the three floors as highlighted). It's also clear that the other flats have their own individual external stop taps mainly grouped together within footway meter boxes. It was dark when I had a look but of the two on the left hand side of the diagram, the lower one is almost completely obscured by privet hedge surrounding the flats. So I'm now working on two possibilities:

1. There is another meter box containing the missing taps buried even deeper under the hedge
2. There are two question marks shown in each of the boxes, so I'm wondering if they might actually feed the two risers for the end flats - but they could just as easily be for other purposes in communal areas within the building

I'm determined to find the answer now!

 

[YorkshireMidge]

Problem solved - missing chamber found buried.

See https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/stop-cock-replacement.481128/#post-3902935