Well done wind

[Justin Passing]

China has spent 10bn or so on fusion research. The point about research is that if you're not seeing any results, you know that spending an extra 100% more would give very little. Like researching , say, telepathy.

@si , your assumptions assertions and conclusions are wrong.

 

[IT Minion]

You missed the point. It's still far from being useful on a large scale. In houses, yes, but it's not for example useful to store excess wind power. Relative to absolutely useless, yes it has moved a lot.

Still crap for energy density too:
View attachment 394914
A large wind turbine can produce about 2.5 to 3.5 megawatts (MW). I'll let you do the sums.
Order of 100 tonnes of battery for a day's worth. Each.

2.5-3.5 MW? A mere child's toy. That's tiny now, modern turbines go up to 13MW and even more powerful ones are being developed.

At the moment batteries can make peaker plants obsolete, those are the most expensive gas plants and the ones that push electricity prices to their highest values. But if the price drops another 90% in the next 15 years? I don't see it as disappointing at all.

Cheap batteries actually make nuclear more viable as well as renewables as it allows unwanted overnight power to be time shifted to daylight hours.

 

[Odds]

If you're looking to save on energy bills don't try the method used by Jasper Carrott - it will not end well.

 

[Murdochcat]

This should serve as a reminder why we will always need gas turbines

 

[IT Minion]

This should serve as a reminder why we will always need gas turbines

View attachment 395263

If you posted that 15 years ago it would have had coal at the same percentage as gas.

Which would have proven to your satisfaction that we could never phase out Coal.

 

[IT Minion]

.

 

[Notch7]

always

storage of electricity will grow as will nuclear

gas will shrink in the energy mix

 

[wobs]

For valves there are typically two loops in a PWR, the hot section is chemically very different to that of any other industrial situation and you want to select the components not just for the usual extreme corrosion and pressure concerns but how they degrade with irradiation and the particular chemical mix of the coolant fluid.

The Three Mile Island meltdown was caused by a faulty valve, in that case it was a badly flawed design. No deaths, but it melted the reactor and you don't repair those, you wall them up and pretend it never happened.

Speaking as someone who used to make valves, they don't need to be anymore expensive than other valves, unless the material used in more expensive. The tolerances shouldn't be finer, and the quality of finish shouldn't need to be different (even if they are, this can be accounted for quite easily). Many industrial valves are done to order, to specific specs anyway, so this isn't unique to nuclear industry.

If they're relying on a valve to work to prevent a meltdown, ten that is clearly a design flaw. One that wouldn't happen in modern designs.

 

[wobs]

storage of electricity will grow as will nuclear

gas will shrink in the energy mix

There's a limit to how much storage is viable, even now costs are coming down. We may be able to reduce gas use, but will always need it for this long dark nights when there is very little wind. Its just not worth having that much storage for what could happen once per year or even less.

The alternative is importing more energy from France and Norway.

 

[Murdochcat]

If you posted that 15 years ago it would have had coal at the same percentage as gas.

Which would have proven to your satisfaction that we could never phase out Coal.

Omg. Do you never give up?

This graph is a snap shot in time in time this morning. Personally it’s very good news but I’d much prefer it if the UK wasn’t so reliant on the interconnects to a variety of countries to make us have energy security

 

[wobs]

Lets look at what others are doing towards their 2030 target (from 2022):

 

[Murdochcat]

^^ a very interesting chart

 

[IT Minion]

Speaking as someone who used to make valves, they don't need to be anymore expensive than other valves, unless the material used in more expensive. The tolerances shouldn't be finer, and the quality of finish shouldn't need to be different (even if they are, this can be accounted for quite easily). Many industrial valves are done to order, to specific specs anyway, so this isn't unique to nuclear industry.

If they're relying on a valve to work to prevent a meltdown, ten that is clearly a design flaw. One that wouldn't happen in modern designs.

You need a lot of valves for a nuclear plant. Lots lf them are critical for operation, the TMI valve that failed was an emergency pressure release valve, if you dont have one of those then you can make your steam loop explode. Thats bad. Worse than the meltdown that happened because the pressure valve leaked.

Designs should be tolerant to a single valve failing, but thats theory rather than reality.

As to the design od the valves you need to soend a lot to test them for the unique environment and tk be shre theyll perform. No one wants to be responsible for a TMI meltdown because they specced the wrong grade of stainless steel. Thats what industry certification and guidelines like those mockingly referencrd by that article are for.

 

[JohnD]

Omg. Do you never give up?

This graph is a snap shot in time in time this morning. Personally it’s very good news but I’d much prefer it if the UK wasn’t so reliant on the interconnects to a variety of countries to make us have energy security

I don't know that we're exactly reliant.

When there's any energy glut, due to a windy spell or a mild winter, they're practically giving it away, and we scoop up what we can for next to nothing.

You can see our gas usage drops when we don't need it.

I occasionally buy stuff cheap at giveaway prices. My local farm has free-range eggs on a "buy one tray, get one free" offer when their trade buyers are closed for a bank holiday. A nearby restaurant offers "unlimited free seconds" on roast dinners when demand is slack. The donkey sanctuary gets free fruit and veg at the end of a day's market trading.

I'm not "reliant" on bargains.

 

[IT Minion]

Omg. Do you never give up?

This graph is a snap shot in time in time this morning. Personally it’s very good news but I’d much prefer it if the UK wasn’t so reliant on the interconnects to a variety of countries to make us have energy security

Yes, its a snapshot and says nothing about our ability to phase out gas. It does show the difficulty though.