What rating of Wago...

[securespark]

...would you use to extend a line conductor inside a socket box in a 32A ring final circuit?

 

[blup]

The 222 connector to extend a ring final circuit inside a socket.

Blup

 

[blup]

Which is rated 32A at 400 volts on TLC's technical information document (mine was 2.5mm2 conductor).

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Wago/Wago412.pdf

 

[Risteard]

...would you use to extend a line conductor inside a socket box in a 32A ring final circuit?

20A or greater as that is what the current-carrying capacity of the cable must be for a ring final circuit.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What rating of Wago would you use to extend a line conductor inside a socket box in a 32A ring final circuit?

I'd use the 32A Ideal SpliceLine type.

 

[securespark]

I agree, 20A min. Someone I know was talking to me about an EICR that marked 20A Wagos down as "underrated" (I don't know, I quite like them, boom, boom!)
I said in that situation, they ought to be minimum 20A, the guy writing the EICR said they should be rated the same as the CPD. I said he was talking lobbox and to request a refund as the report was not worth the paper it was written on.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Should contrive a section of ring final with the cable installed to Ref Method A, and see what this soi-disant inspector says...

 

[Risteard]

I agree, 20A min. Someone I know was talking to me about an EICR that marked 20A Wagos down as "underrated" (I don't know, I quite like them, boom, boom!)
I said in that situation, they ought to be minimum 20A, the guy writing the EICR said they should be rated the same as the CPD. I said he was talking lobbox and to request a refund as the report was not worth the paper it was written on.

Ask him to justify that view when the cable isn't required to be rated at anything above 32A.

It's not uncommon for people to decide that connections should be 32A-rated for a ring final circuit, but it really doesn't hold up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

 

[JohnW2]

Ask him to justify that view when the cable isn't required to be rated at anything above 32A.

Do I take it that you mean 20A?

It's not uncommon for people to decide that connections should be 32A-rated for a ring final circuit, but it really doesn't hold up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

There is one theoretical catch. As we know, a cable with a CCC of 20A is deemed to come to no harm if 29A flows through it for an hour. Can we necessarily be certain that a connector 'rated at' 20A would necessarily be equally unharmed by 29A?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

Do I take it that you mean 20A?
There is one theoretical catch. As we know, a cable with a CCC of 20A is deemed to come to no harm if 29A flows through it for an hour. Can we necessarily be certain that a connector 'rated at' 20A would necessarily be equally unharmed by 29A?

Kind Regards, John

Apologies, yes I meant 20A and not 32A.

I think it's fair to assume that connectors will not explode the minute their rated current is exceeded otherwise we would have problems with fault currents.

 

[JohnW2]

I think it's fair to assume that connectors will not explode the minute their rated current is exceeded otherwise we would have problems with fault currents.

Fault currents will (should) be cleared very rapidly.

What I'm talking about is the current that the connector can carry for 1 hour without suffering any damage. In the case of a cable with a CCC of 20A, we know that that current is deemed to be at least 29A. In the case of a connector 'rated' at 20A, I haven't a clue as to what current it is required to be able to carry for an hour without coming to harm - do you know?

I would strongly suspect that most connectors could probably carry at least double their rated current (in some cases, maybe a lot more than that) for an hour without coming to harm - but 'strongly suspecting' and 'knowing' are two very different things.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

Fault currents will (should) be cleared very rapidly.

What I'm talking about is the current that the connector can carry for 1 hour without suffering any damage. In the case of a cable with a CCC of 20A, we know that that current is deemed to be at least 29A. In the case of a connector 'rated' at 20A, I haven't a clue as to what current it is required to be able to carry for an hour without coming to harm - do you know?

I would strongly suspect that most connectors could probably carry at least double their rated current (in some cases, maybe a lot more than that) for an hour without coming to harm - but 'strongly suspecting' and 'knowing' are two very different things.

Kind Regards, John

BS EN 60898 circuit breakers are required not to operate at 1.13 In, and are required to operate within the conventional time (1 hour) at 1.45 In. It would be fair to assume that ratings of connectors would have to hold until operation of a protective device, although as with cables small overloads of long duration need to be avoided by design.

 

[JohnW2]

BS EN 60898 circuit breakers are required not to operate at 1.13 In, and are required to operate within the conventional time (1 hour) at 1.45 In.

I'm not sure why you are bothering to repeat that - I've just written that a cable with a CCC of 20A , hence deemed to be adequately protected by a 60898 MCB with an In of 20A, is hence also deemed to not come to harm if 29A (20A x 1.45) flows for an hour!

It would be fair to assume that ratings of connectors would have to hold until operation of a protective device, although as with cables small overloads of long duration need to be avoided by design.

Assume whatever you like but, as I said, I don't know what is the basis of the 'rating' of a connector (and what requirements the relevant Standard imposes). You are very probably right - but you are assuming/guessing/applying common sense - which, again, is very different from knowing.

If you asked the manufacturer of a connector 'rated' at 20A what current it could carry for an hour without coming to any harm (or, if you prefer, how long it could carry 29A without coming to any harm), what do you think they would say? ... and what do you think they would say about their warranty if you told them that the manner in which you intended to use their ('20A') product is such that it could find itself carrying 29A for an hour?

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Having seen a 10.5kW shower circuit wired in 2.5 run quite happily for 2 years until the switch finally burnt out (could happen to even a correctly wired 6/ 10mm² circuit), I am inclined to think that cables, connectors etcetera have a lot of leeway engineered into them.