What System for a Small Cupboard

[ChrisR]

ChrisNason before you get sold DD's fave boiler of the week DO check the plumbing basics, such as the mains pressure and flow, and internal pipework and demands.
And investigate the obvious consequences of having a boiler nobody recognises.
DD got the output wrong and the price wrong, so watch what else he spits out. The regulars know it's laced with drivel.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

ChrisNason before you get sold DD's fave boiler of the week DO check the plumbing basics, such as the mains pressure and flow, and internal pipework and demands.
And investigate the obvious consequences of having a boiler nobody recognises.
DD got the output wrong and the price wrong, so watch what else he spits out. The regulars know it's laced with drivel.

The regulars like are quite dumb:

You can fit a secondary DHW circulation loop with it. What combi does that?

The OpenTherm room temp controller? The Honeywell Cronotherm will do. It modulates the burner. The Ethos also keeps the DHW heat exchanger warm too (user selectable). The DHW heat exchanger is a coil of copper pipe with three small pipes inside that. No plate heat exchanger used for some reason. The temperature sensors just clip on the pipes.

What price? They sell between £1,200 and £1,300 inc' delivery plus VAT. They are cheap for what they are. A W-Bosch Highflow 440 goes for £1,550 and drops off in flowrate when the store is depleted. The 54C is an infinitely continuous combi - never runs out of DHW and the flowrate never drops too. Great for body jet showers, where many have to spend a fortune upgrading cylinder sizes when fitting them as they run out of water quickly. These never run out.

Designed in the UK, and made in Holland. They use a Gionani heat exchanger, Grundfos pump and Honeywell 3-way valve. It is a commercial boiler downsized for domestic. The case is small too for the output. It is not like the Vaillant ecoTEC937, which is the size of a washing machine on the wall. This along with the MAN Micromat (ECO-Hometec) are about the best high flowrate infinitely continuous combis around.

Why the Ethos hasn't taken off I don't know - it is, slowly though. Great for new builds.

 

[ChrisR]

The regulars like are quite dumb:

Really. Which ones. Like?
This comes from someone who can't do basic arithmetic, can't spell Giannoni, can't look prices up up correctly, and uses pseudo technical one sided arguments a used car dealer would be ashamed of.

The Ethos boilers are interesting, but a lot of interesting stuff is so full of unforseen problems it disappears after a couplle of years. Not much information in the lit, really. I'd want a 5 year guarantee.

Ideal Responses (much praised by DD) were interesting - simple small boiler, high flow rate. Turned out to be a disastrous choice for too many people.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

The regulars like are quite dumb:

Really. Which ones. Like?

...me?

This comes from someone who can't do basic arithmetic,

Have you read my post on power and energy yet?

The Ethos boilers are interesting, but a lot of interesting stuff is so full of unforseen problems it disappears after a couplle of years.

Been around for only 4 years. All the generic components are standard quality components

Not much information in the lit,

the install manual is on line.

Ideal Responses (much praised by DD) were interesting - simple small boiler, high flow rate. Turned out to be a disastrous choice for too many people.

They were a disaster. I know many that have been trouble free for years and years. They didn't like being starved of flow through the Heat X - if so the heat X split, its major fault. Fitting TRVs all around and by-passes that are incorrectly set reduces the life of modern boilers - we need to go back to larger, and insulated, water jackets than do not need to be fully pumped and act as a small thermal store as do oil boilers. The Response is simple too and no 3-way valve either.

The Ethos uses all standard quality components and is very well specced - and priced!!!!. It only deviates in the DHW heat exchanger.

 

[simond]

What boiler have you got in your house (or do you live under a mushroom ), DD?

 

[Doctor Drivel]

What boiler have you got in your house (or do you live under a mushroom ), DD?

What boiler do you have.

 

[simond]

It's considered rude to answer a question with another one.

Notwithstanding, I have an Archie Kidd Model 1 oil, 2005 vintage.

And yours?

 

[mickyg]

DD I don't think its fair you make comparisons with Vaillant boilers when you clearly have no knowledge of them. I know nothing about ethos boilers and therefore I will not be drawn into this argument, and I will not reply to any of your following comments. But until you know about an appliance you should not make comments about it.. period.

 

[ChrisNason]

So. It's a Valiant if I go Combi. (it was the opinionated one that took it down that route)
The wife still wants a hot water store. Are there any systems like the Tribune (which is 478mm) which will go through the 450mm door?
Terrywookfit said specials are available to order. How do I get them?

 

[simond]

I think RCM Copperform make a narrow unvented cylinder. UltraSteel if my memory serves.

PS: Still waiting to hear what Doctor Drivel has in his own abode (apart from the naughty books and THAT video)......

 

[ChrisNason]

I think RCM Copperform make a narrow unvented cylinder. UltraSteel if my memory serves.

Superb Simond. Found it straight away. Ultrasteel HE Slim. It quotes 478mm in steel casing and 428mm in foam casing. I'd prefer a steel casing but looks like I'll have to compromise.
So it's starting to look like a standard boiler and this slimline unless anybody has other thoughts?

 

[plumgas]

After reading all that my minds an unvented cylinder about to blow. Worcester and vailliant are good boilers can not comment on DD chose don’t know the boiler. Unvented cylinders and combi's are not that dissimilar i.e. what you put in is wot you get out. so check the flow rates and what the incoming main is I have only ever fitted OSO and they like a 22mm feed to the cylinder being the first branch of the water main don’t know how often fitted like that would ask the others on the site. Is there any other place were it can go you have more options on sighting than a conventional cylinder and don’t forget if the unvented isn’t install properly and safely there potentially a bomb and you wont need to worry about the size of the doorway then or if its just the shower you want fit a pump you may need to increase the header tank and cylinder and may even work out cheaper if you shop around

 

[Doctor Drivel]

It's considered rude to answer a question with another one.

Notwithstanding, I have an Archie Kidd Model 1 oil, 2005 vintage.

And yours?

An Ideal non-modulating fixed rate Minimiser condensing model about 10 to 12 years old (the choice was very limited then) and a Microgenus non-condensing combi 5 years old.

The Ideal is a crap boiler directly on rads but heating a heat bank directly so works well as in an ideal hydraulic environment with full flow through the Heat X. It has and will last (hasn't missed a beat) - they need a good clean every 9 months, as the burner is bottom mounted. The man who designed the boilers Heat X had brain damage. It is a very small cased pre-mix burner boiler. Simple and great for heat banks. Not been made for 3 to 4 years as it was a disaster of a boiler in the field as it needs approx 60% flow minimum and people fit TRVs all around and don't set up the by-pass right, so the heat X suffers from poor flow. As it needs 60% flow the by-passes open up a lot and the efficiency drops like a stone - if setup right of course which few are. It is controlled via a weather compensator to heat the heat bank CH section to outside temp dictates. It is very efficient as I have engineered it to be efficient.

The Microgenus is very reliable if noisy, but in a small cupboard so noise muffled. It was the smallest cased combi at the time so no choice - well specced and a pre-heat option too. Last week I took the case off to clean it for its annual service and it is like new inside the burner box. It has not required cleaning ever. Full flow through the heat exchanger as only one TRV and set just below full boiler stat temperature so no condensing inside the burner box. The DHW is fed from a tank via 1" pipe and at 1.5 bar.

So much for those who say modern boilers are crap. Fit them right and in a clean system and they last. And these two boilers are far from current day quality boilers.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

DD I don't think its fair you make comparisons with Vaillant boilers when you clearly have no knowledge of them.

I do.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

So. It's a Valiant if I go Combi. (it was the opinionated one that took it down that route)

That is sad. You should not be swayed by opinionated people and went for an Ethos.

The wife still wants a hot water store.

Stored water is only last resort if a quality one-box solution meets your needs.