Who can issue a Periodic Inspection Report

[newsparkyleeds]

hi,

What qualifications are needed in order to issue a Periodic Inspection Report.
Im currently 17th edition and will go for my 2391 very soon. Is it possible to issue a PIR after 2391 or will I have to register with Niceic or napit?

 

[STI]

In answer to the specific question you need to be competent.

You do not need to have 2391 (but it certainly would help to show a level of competency) you do not need to be a member of the competent persons schemes. However some businesses and insurance companies want this.

If you are self employed you do need insurance, PLI and professional indemnity

 

[RF Lighting]

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=234339

 

[plugwash]

Afaict anyone who considers themselves competent to do so can issue a PIR. However depending on what the PIR is for the organisation requesting/demanding it may place further requirements on who they will accept one from.

 

[Taylortwocities]

If you are self employed you do need insurance, PLI and professional indemnity

Many insurance companies will not provide you with professional indeminity insurance unless they deem you to have a relavent qualification/experience.

You are best using a specialist electrician's policy as PI insurance is an expensive add-on to general PL insurance policies.

Comapnies that do this include Trade Direct and Charles Roxburgh

 

[STI]

My PI insurance cost me £2 per month extra from Hiscox for i think it was 5 million coverage may be 2 million . However at the time they had a poicy purely for electrical test and inspection.

 

[bluemonkeyface]

you don't need to consider yourself competent or indeed be competent. Anyone can buy certificates from NICEIC and they don't need any qualifications. In fact the milkman can issue a Periodic Inspection Report for you!

 

[sparkticus]

you don't need to consider yourself competent or indeed be competent. Anyone can buy certificates from NICEIC and they don't need any qualifications. In fact the milkman can issue a Periodic Inspection Report for you!

The PIR will be worthless and the milkman will not have PI insurance to cover the aftermath.

The Milkman could also perform emergency surgery on the client with the full consent of the client. Same outcome and still no insurance.

 

[sparkticus]

hi,

What qualifications are needed in order to issue a Periodic Inspection Report.
Im currently 17th edition and will go for my 2391 very soon. Is it possible to issue a PIR after 2391 or will I have to register with Niceic or napit?

You need to be competent & experienced. Carrying out a PIR is a professional task. You have responsibility and accountability. What if you issue a satisfactory report, miss something and the property burns down a week later due to a confirmed electrical safety deficiency.

How many years experience do you have?
Is this domestic? Commercial? Industrial?

 

[bluemonkeyface]

What regulations are you referring to when you suggest that the said person must be in the slightest competent?

I appreciate it may be the best practise but as far as I know you don't need any qualifications to carry out such an inspection.

It's also completely legal to issue the certificates that can be obtained from NICEIC

 

[sparkticus]

What regulations are you referring to when you suggest that the said person must be in the slightest competent?

Regulations?? Common sense and a responsible attitude.

I appreciate it may be the best practise but as far as I know you don't need any qualifications to carry out such an inspection.

You are right, you do not need qualifications. Do yo know many people who can properly complete a PIR and the certificate without qualifications & experience?

It's also completely legal to issue the certificates that can be obtained from NICEIC

Is it? Well, all I can say is that I am with the NICEIC and as far as I know you can't buy NICEIC headed certs without being registered for the appropriate scheme (I just checked on line at my NICEIC home page) You can buy the green certs which do not have NICEIC written on them.
If you read the back of an official NICEIC cert then you will see that they do not give permission to unregistered people.

 

[JohnW2]

Afaict anyone who considers themselves competent to do so can issue a PIR.

That's also my understanding.

However depending on what the PIR is for the organisation requesting/demanding it may place further requirements on who they will accept one from.

PIR forms I've seen and, indeed, even the sample EICR form in the BGB (BS7671:2008{2011}), only seems to ask for name, 'position' and address of the person signing the declaration and issuing the report - nothing about qualifications or 'competence'. The 'position' bit might give some indication (I'm not sure what people put for that) but, beyond that, it's hard to see how "the organisation requesting/demanding" the report would be able to tell much about the qualifications, or even competence, of the person providing the report - unless they contact and ask him/her.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[sparkticus]

Afaict anyone who considers themselves competent to do so can issue a PIR.

That's also my understanding.

However depending on what the PIR is for the organisation requesting/demanding it may place further requirements on who they will accept one from.

PIR forms I've seen and, indeed, even the sample EICR form in the BGB (BS7671:2008{2011}), only seems to ask for name, 'position' and address of the person signing the declaration and issuing the report - nothing about qualifications or 'competence'. The 'position' bit might give some indication (I'm not sure what people put for that) but, beyond that, it's hard to see how "the organisation requesting/demanding" the report would be able to tell much about the qualifications, or even competence, of the person providing the report - unless they contact and ask him/her.

Kind Regards, John.

John, this is one of the reasons why there are registration bodies such as the NICEIC, NAPIT, ELECSA etc.

The reality is that anyone and their dog can perform a PIR provided it is not on an approved cert such as NICEIC etc. What is the validity of the report? Well, that depends on whether something goes wrong after a "satisfactory" report is issued.

Now many good electricians who can do good comprehensive PIRs may not be registered. However, any client who chooses a registered competent person has some recourse when things go wrong. It is also likely that the registered person will be familiar with the latest regs and best practices for PIRs.

I do lots of industrial PIRs and it is likley that anyone who is not registered won't get a lot of this work. Many of the companies I do reports for also demand professional qualifications in addition to the registration.

 

[JohnW2]

The reality is that anyone and their dog can perform a PIR provided it is not on an approved cert such as NICEIC etc.

As I said, that's my understanding.

The What is the validity of the report? Well, that depends on whether something goes wrong after a "satisfactory" report is issued. Now many good electricians who can do good comprehensive PIRs may not be registered. However, any client who chooses a registered competent person has some recourse when things go wrong.

I would actually have thought that, in terms of recourse under the law, it would actually be more likely to be successful if the defendant was not registered, since it would be easier to build a case against him/her if their competance could be questioned.

It is also likely that the registered person will be familiar with the latest regs and best practices for PIRs.

I'm not so sure that whether or not a person is registered will necessarily correlate all that well with how up-to-date they are with regs and practices. I'm certainly sure that there will be some non-registered people who are up-to-date and some registered ones who aren't!

Kind Regards,John.

 

[ericmark]

My son and I had to complete a job when the builder disappeared. We did it all above board and informed the LABC what we were doing. They wanted an installation certificate and my son said "I will make that out I have my C&G 2391" at which the inspector refused to accept that. He then said "My dad has a degree in Electrical Engineering" at which they said I could do the inspection and testing.

As it happens I also have a C&G 2391 but they did not know that. And I had no insurance but my son did. Since it was my parents house there was not really an issue as far as insurance went we were working like any other DIY would work.

However it seems very strange as when doing my degree we never touched anything to do with BS7671 and the qualification did not really mean I knew what I was doing as far as inspection and testing goes.

Had I missed something and someone was injured as a result I am not sure what the outcome would be. As technically the LABC is responsible for site safety so they would have to explain why they didn't check any of my work. From the point where the inspector said we could do work we never saw him on site again.

So much for Part P. We have a completion certificate but a bit of paper does not make things safe.

As already said it is all down to insurance and what the client will accept. I have in the main worked in house. As senior skilled man I have often had to check other peoples work. Sorry to say there are many electricians who I know are trained who have done work I could not accept. It did not matter if they said it was OK. If something went wrong it was me who had to convince the HSE that they should not prosecute. Even if I didn't do the work I was still responsible for it to some degree. So I did not really care what bits of paper they had. What I wanted to see was a good professional job.

A PIR saying code 2 without an explanation as to why it was a code 2 certainly would not be accepted.