that is true but the requirements for all new "competent persons" are increasing and that trend will surely continue. That can only lead to a better situation - I think.
Who can issue a Periodic Inspection Report
- Thread starter newsparkyleeds
- Start date
that is true but the requirements for all new "competent persons" are increasing and that trend will surely continue. That can only lead to a better situation - I think.
Sponsored Links
P
Paul_C
But surely the whole point is that as far as issuing either an EIC or a PIR is concerned, there is no specific requirement for anyone to be a "competent person" in the sense of the various schemes?
Whether an EIC or a PIR, there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone who considers himself competent from issuing either, so long as he's willing to accept responsibility. Stricter requirements for the various "competent persons" schemes as recognized for Part P notifications won't change that.
Whether an EIC or a PIR, there is absolutely nothing to stop anyone who considers himself competent from issuing either, so long as he's willing to accept responsibility. Stricter requirements for the various "competent persons" schemes as recognized for Part P notifications won't change that.
I think we are all agreed that the present bureacratic situation is totall irrational - but I'm not sure I'm going to hold my breath in the hope that the situation is going to change any time soon.Soon will be the day that you do need to have the relevant qualifications to do PIRs and be a member of a scheme. I don't understand why the rules are so, that to document a new installation requires part p competency and the need to be a scheme member or work notified. Where as a PIR does'nt, I know which I would prefer to inspect and test, between a new and old installation
Anyway, as has often been discussed here, before any bureaucratic system is going to be meaningful, it would really be necessary to do something to make it far more certain that a person who was 'qualified and registered' was actually competent, sensible and knowledgable enough (including good understanding of the underlying principles, not simply able to pass exams). Whilst I'm sure that there are many electricians, including many of those here, who meet that requirement, it seems that is essentially despite the present qualification/ registration system, not becasue of it. I know they're probably a small minority, but I've heard some very silly (and sometimes very dangerous) things said by 'qualified' and registered electricians.
Kind Regards, John.
It's the word "competent" that causes the problem, it is misleading.
I think it would be best not used.
I think it would be best not used.
Sponsored Links
Unlikely.
Increasing the requirements for membership of competent persons schemes will simply mean that there is even more incentive for people not to join in the first place, or to not bother renewing.
Until membership of the scheme is mandatory, nothing will change. ('the' meaning one scheme only, not the silly selection of different schemes we have now)
I agree totally. There are people with 'qualifications' and registrations coming out of their ears who are not, in the everyday sense of the word, competent - and there are people wih absolutely no qualifications or registrations who are actually competent (everyday sense).
Although it would certainly work against the likes of me (a pretty rare breed, so would affect very few!), bureaucratic requirements should really be based only on 'qualifications' (relating to proper assessments of knowledge and skills) and, ideally, also periodic 're-validation' (by re-assessment) - not because the unqualified are inevitably 'incompetant' but, rather, because it is very difficult to establish competence (everyday meaning) without assessments and 'qualifications'.
Kind Regards, John.
Yes, that's more like it. Before I retired my PI insurance for £1m international cover was £880 a year with £1000 excess.
The PI insurance specifically excluded "the supply, manufacture, sale, installation or maintenance of any product". It covers negligent misstatements, breach of confidence, infringement of intellectual property rights and the like. So I think the need for PI by an electrician is rather limited. Indeed, a claim is often limited by the value of the job, making it rather unlikely for a PIR on a domestic property.
That's the sort of figure I would have expected, BUT ....
That's surely ridiculous. Excluding 'manufacture' is fair enough, but if an electricians's PI insurance doesn't cover 'supply, installation or maintenance of any product' (which I would of thought was a pretty comprehensive description of what an electrician does, apart from inspection/testing) what on earth is the point of having it?! Indeed, what aspects of your actual work did it cover - just the inspection/testing?
The cost of my PI insurance has varied a lot over the years, depending on exactly what hat I was wearing at the time (I have far too many
and the nature of the work/projects I was involved with from time to time. The premiums have nearly always been much higher (in 2011 pounds) than those we are discussing here, but at least they covered me in relation to the work I was actually doing at the time!Kind Regards, John.
That's the sort of figure I would have expected, BUT ....
That's surely ridiculous. Excluding 'manufacture' is fair enough, but if an electricians's PI insurance doesn't cover 'supply, installation or maintenance of any product' (which I would of thought was a pretty comprehensive description of what an electrician does, apart from inspection/testing) what on earth is the point of having it?! Indeed, what aspects of your actual work did it cover - just the inspection/testing?
The cost of my PI insurance has varied a lot over the years, depending on exactly what hat I was wearing at the time (I have far too many
Kind Regards, John.
My PI insurance essentially only covers me for erroneous, negligent advice, infringement of IP. I do have an excess and think it may well be£1000 but need to check that. I do a mix of electrical installation, electrical & electronics design, repair maintenance of electrical & electronics plant and PIRs. As far as I can tell my PI insurance is only really applicable to the PIRs and to perform the PIRs I must have it in place. You might argue that it could apply to design work, especially IP infringement and that is a point I am not sure about. It certainly does not cover patent infringement.
Never got my hands dirty
I used to give advice and write reports on electricity supply economics in foreign countries. For example developing a system for setting cost-reflective tariffs. So my PI covered me for all the work I did.My point was that PI is not really applicable to an electrician's work unless he does something unusual.
So it seems, but I'm getting a bit confused. Throughout my working life I have had to have insurance to cover claims in relation to the consequences of negligence in performance of my professional activities - which makes sense - and I assumed the same existed for most trades/professions. Are you saying that electricians do not, or cannot, get insurance cover for the consequences of their being negligent in what they most commonly do (primarily design, install and maintain electrical installations)?
Kind Regards, John.
I pay £250 per year for £2m Public Liability Insurance and £250k Professional indemnity insurance.
I cannot be registered with my scheme unless I have the Public Liability Insurance and I cannot do Periodic Inspection Reports without the professional indemnity insurance.
I cannot be registered with my scheme unless I have the Public Liability Insurance and I cannot do Periodic Inspection Reports without the professional indemnity insurance.
Thanks - but does any of that cover you for the consequences of negligent performance of electrical work you undertake (other than PIRs)?
(Do I take it that you mean Professional Indemnity, rather than Personal Indemnity - or do the words vary?)
Kind Regards, John.
No. I'm just quoting from my PII documents. If I look at PII for other professionals, I find similar cover — it's for intangibles like intellectual property and so on. I guess electricians' work is covered by other insurance such as PLI but I don't know because I've never needed it.
DIYnot Local
Staff member
If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.
Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.
Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local
Sponsored Links
