Why did I not die??

[JohnW2]

543.3.201 does not prohibit bare cpcs >6mm².

It doesn't - but if one needed a CPC that large (e.g. for Earthing or Bonding Conductors), then what 543.1.1 says about the minimum CSAs of 2.5mm² and 4mm² would be pretty irrelevant. I can't see anyone using a 10mm² bare CPC if a 2.5mm² G/Y one would be acceptable.

I do think that you're probably a bit on on a limb on this one, and I'd be interested to hear other views.

Kind Regards, John

 

[FrodoOne]

That must be rather restricting.

How do you manage with three core and earth where you may want to use it for various things - 3L for strappers, L & 2SL, etc.?

(24 hours later.)

The following is the site for "Olex" cables, showing the sizes manufactured. (https://www.olex.com.au/eservice/Australia-en_AU/fileLibrary/Download_540225217/Australia/files/OLC15984 Handbook July 2016 FA V3 LR.pdf )

(By the way, note that all the wire sizes above 1 mm² use stranded conductors - and the Earth is also stranded. Cables with solid conductors used to be available also [at a slightly lower cost] up to 2.5mm², but the lower cost was outweighed by the fact that cables with stranded conductors are easier to handle, so those with solid conductors have been phased out.
I'm glad that we don't need to deal with the large size solid conductors that you use, let alone those of the North Americans !)

(Unfortunately this site does not indicate the colours - and only the Twin and Earth is illustrated here http://www.olex.com.au/eservice/Aus.../PVC_Flat_2_and_3_Core_Earth.html#description)


This site shows two core "Twin Active" cables (https://www.bunnings.com.au/olex-100m-x-1mm-solid-two-core-twin-active-electrical-wire_p4430072), which were often used from ceiling lights to the switch. (Yes B-A-S, Bunnings is a "Shed".)

(In Australia, the term “Active” is used for “Line”.) The “RED” in the twin active cable would be the “Line/Active” from the light and the “White” would be the “Switched Active” from the switch back to the light.

For multi-way switching, one could use “3 core + Earth” but using a “Twin and Earth” plus a single “Active” (RED) cable is more common. (https://www.bunnings.com.au/olex-1mm-white-single-core-electrical-cable-per-metre_p4430103). There is no rule which says that all the conductors in such a circuit must be in the same cable, as there seems to be in North America.

Indeed. From what has been said, it sounds as if they have to use "DI" singles in those situations - alone or in combination with multi-core cables.

If by DI you mean “Double Insulated”, yes. As you can see, the “Single Active" cable is a Red insulated conductor with a TPS sheath.

 

[FrodoOne]

I cannot think of any standards which Australia feels obliged or inclined to sign up to.

Well, we changed from 240 V to 230 V as the nominal "standard" voltage.
However, the allowable variation was juggled so that a 240 V supply (in fact, up to 250 V) is still covered by it.

"In 2000, Standards Australia issued a system Standard, AS60038, with 230V as the nominal voltage with a +10% to –6% variation at the point of supply. (253 V to 216.2 V)"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112
(Note that electrical standards in Australia and New Zealand are [virtually] the same.)

 

[winston1]

Well, we changed from 240 V to 230 V as the nominal "standard" voltage.
However, the allowable variation was juggled so that a 240 V supply (in fact, up to 250 V) is still covered by it.

"In 2000, Standards Australia issued a system Standard, AS60038, with 230V as the nominal voltage with a +10% to –6% variation at the point of supply. (253 V to 216.2 V)"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112
(Note that electrical standards in Australia and New Zealand are [virtually] the same.)

Yeah, we did that con here also. The voltage was not changed but electricians and DNOs lie as to what the voltage is.

 

[winston1]

(24 hours later.)


This site shows two core "Twin Active" cables (https://www.bunnings.com.au/olex-100m-x-1mm-solid-two-core-twin-active-electrical-wire_p4430072), which were often used from ceiling lights to the switch. (Yes B-A-S, Bunnings is a "Shed".)

(In Australia, the term “Active” is used for “Line”.) The “RED” in the twin active cable would be the “Line/Active” from the light and the “White” would be the “Switched Active” from the switch back to the light.

Do you not run earth wires to light switches then? Are there no metal switches?

 

[JohnW2]

If by DI you mean “Double Insulated”, yes.

Yes, that's what I meant.

I put "DI" in quotes since there are some people here who enjoy arguing that they are not "double insulated" - but, rather, "insulated and sheathed" - since it appears that the requirements for the sheath are in relation to mechanical properties, with apparently no explicit requirement that it should be 'insulating'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

(Yes B-A-S, Bunnings is a "Shed".)

Indeed, an no longer an Australian 'shed' with which we are unfamiliar in the UK. As you may know, Bunnings (or whoever owns them) has bought all the previous "Homebase" stores in the UK, and is gradually re-branding them as Bunnings. I think there are about 10 which have been re-branded so far, with the remainder due to be re-branded gradually over the coming 5 years or so.

KInd Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

electricians and DNOs lie as to what the voltage is.

No they don't.

You know what the truth is, but you don't like it, and you wish it were otherwise.

You are so perverse in your desire to deny the truth you think that if you make false claims then somehow reality will change to make them true.

It won't.

You are the liar.

STOP LYING.

 

[winston1]

We don't need to go through this arguement again. You and I and most sensible people on this forum know if you measure UK mains voltage it is invariably around 240 volts. Anyone claiming 230 volts is simply lying, you included. Stop calling me a liar or I will report you to the mods.

 

[JohnW2]

Anyone claiming 230 volts is simply lying...

Anyone claiming that the actual 'usual'/'common'/'average'/whatever supply voltage in the UK was 230V would, indeed, not be telling the truth.

Anyone saying that the nominal voltage in the UK is defined as being 230V would be telling the complete truth, even though (unless/until the voltage is actually changed) it does not mean very much.

Kind Regards, John

 

[calumr135]

Hi guys having read through the posts, having done further inspection on the property the lighting setup it very much the same as what simon has described, the live loop (reds) runs through all the switch points in the property, (no neutrals in switches), the circuit neutrals (blacks) loop round all the ceiling roses on the circuit,then individual switch has a yellow wire (switch live) which runs to their respective roses) and finally the earth wires as they are. I made a silly mistake by not turning off the lighting at the fusebox, only at the lightswitch, Usually if the lighting loop is in the switch and not the rose you can get away with only having the power off at the switch, luckily for me nothing too bad happened.
I originally thought it may be a borrowed neutral as have never come across a ceiling rose like this with only 4 wires, but infact it was loop neutrals that shocked me as I broke the circuit and other lights were on at the time.

The moral or lesson for me is switch off a circuit fully and test and test again when the wires are seperated as you never know what to expect like I did, someone else might not be so lucky. 245v hurts!

sorry for the confusion
cheers

 

[HawkEye244]

Electric shocks are overrated.



Pun intended

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We don't need to go through this arguement again. You and I and most sensible people on this forum know if you measure UK mains voltage it is invariably around 240 volts. Anyone claiming 230 volts is simply lying, you included. Stop calling me a liar or I will report you to the mods.

Oh I know you will.

And I know that they will, as always, delete my posts, lock me out of the thread, and leave your lies present, because nothing critical of poor little Winston must be allowed, must it.

But I'll make you an offer - I will stop calling you a liar if you stop lying.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Anyone claiming that the actual 'usual'/'common'/'average'/whatever supply voltage in the UK was 230V would, indeed, not be telling the truth.

Anyone saying that the nominal voltage in the UK is defined as being 230V would be telling the complete truth, even though (unless/until the voltage is actually changed) it does not mean very much.

Winston thinks that if he conflates nominal and 'usual'/'common'/'average' often enough then somehow his perversity will be regularised.

He also thinks that he should be allowed to lie about what people are declaring to be 230V.

 

[JohnW2]

Winston thinks that if he conflates nominal and 'usual'/'common'/'average' often enough then somehow his perversity will be regularised.

He probably does.

Unless there is a belief (intent? hope?) that the appearance of this particular 'nominal' voltage will ultimately result in 'average' (or whatever) supply voltages changing to close to that figure, what the 'change' (at least, in the UK) was actually meant to achieve.

Kind Regards, John