Wide bore pipes (and many other things...!)

[monkeybird]

Hi, got a lovely new house with lovely cast-iron 1950s radiators and massiive wide bore pipes, which act like radiators too... they're about 2-3 inches (and I mean two to three whole inches not two thirds...)

Cannot afford, nor want the disruption of replacing all these pipes but the guy who came out to service the ancient and rather smelly boiler said it would be impossible to replace the boiler without all the pipes...

Seemed a bit fishy to me but what do I know I'm just a daft girl...

Not bothered about a combi (it's a gravity fed system currently) but do want to 'future-proof' a bit for when we put in an en-suite etc... 5 of us living here and 3 of them very dirty boys so need lots of hot water.

Please advise and tell me there is a solution that isn't going to cost me millions of pounds and whole house ripped apart. And do I need to worry bout the smell? The guy who serviced it said not but I don't like it. Carbon monoxide meter in there reading max of 37ppm which is a touch over normal limits...

Any advice very gratefully received.
Monkeybird

 

[doitall]

I hope you told him to take a running jump

Yes you can have an nice new shinny boiler, avoid a combi though with all them dirty kids.

You will need to upgrade the controls and have a pump fitted, bu all that can be done around the boiler.

No boiler should should smell that bad, so I think you are right to be concerned, is it oil or gas.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

I hope you told him to take a running jump

Yes you can have an nice new shinny boiler, avoid a combi though with all them dirty kids.

A highflow quality combi like an Ethos would be ideal. Never runs out of hot water and does the CH as well.

You will need to upgrade the controls and have a pump fitted, bu all that can be done around the boiler.

No boiler should should smell that bad, so I think you are right to be concerned, is it oil or gas.

If keeping the existing iron pipes, have the system cleaned with Fermox cleanser and fit a Magnanclean filter on the return to the boiler.

 

[JohnD]

big radiator pipes do lose heat However, where they are run within the living space, this just contributes to the warming of the house and is not a problem.

Where pipes run outside the heated living space they should be well-lagged with modern rigid foam insulation.

Be sure to have the system well cleaned befor having a new boiler fitted, it is sure to contain a lot of iron oxide sludge. Funnily enough if you have an iron boiler, iron pipes and iron radiators it may not be as bad as one with copper pipes mixed with the iron parts.

If you hope to be using hot taps in two bathrooms at the same time, a Combi will be very slow since it is limited on the amount of hot water it can deliver per minute. However it is possible to have a combi heating a cylinder, as well as delivering instant water to e.g. a shower. This is not often done but is perfectly possible and could be handy as your family grows up and wants more showers.

p.s. I agree, Magnacleans are great on an older system!

 

[doitall]

I hope you told him to take a running jump

Yes you can have an nice new shinny boiler, avoid a combi though with all them dirty kids.

A highflow quality combi like an Ethos would be ideal. Never runs out of hot water and does the CH as well.

You will need to upgrade the controls and have a pump fitted, bu all that can be done around the boiler.

No boiler should should smell that bad, so I think you are right to be concerned, is it oil or gas.

If keeping the existing iron pipes, have the system cleaned with Fermox cleanser and fit a Magnanclean clean on the return to the boiler.

Disagree with you again Drivel, even the Ethos can only run two outlets at an limited flow rate, you also have no backup, which is very important, as is keeping an open vented system.

Depending on the material and condition, I would keep or renew the cylinder and upgrade the primary pipework to fully pumped.

The Magnaclean is an essential piece of kit for an old system

 

[Doctor Drivel]

big radiator pipes do lose heat However, where they are run within the living space, this just contributes to the warming of the house and is not a problem.

Where pipes run outside the heated living space they should be well-lagged with modern rigid foam insulation.

Be sure to have the system well cleaned befor having a new boiler fitted, it is sure to contain a lot of iron oxide sludge. Funnily enough if you have an iron boiler, iron pipes and iron radiators it may not be as bad as one with copper pipes mixed with the iron parts.

If you hope to be using hot taps in two bathrooms at the same time, a Combi will be very slow since it is limited on the amount of hot water it can deliver per minute.

Oh no not one of these again. The high flowrate Ethos combi can deliver as much as an unvented cylinder...and cheaper than a cylinder and a system boiler.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

big radiator pipes do lose heat However, where they are run within the living space, this just contributes to the warming of the house and is not a problem.

Where pipes run outside the heated living space they should be well-lagged with modern rigid foam insulation.

Be sure to have the system well cleaned befor having a new boiler fitted, it is sure to contain a lot of iron oxide sludge. Funnily enough if you have an iron boiler, iron pipes and iron radiators it may not be as bad as one with copper pipes mixed with the iron parts.

If you hope to be using hot taps in two bathrooms at the same time, a Combi will be very slow since it is limited on the amount of hot water it can deliver per minute.

Oh no not one of these again. The high flowrate Ethos combi can deliver as much as an unvented cylinder...and cheaper than a cylinder and a system boiler.

An Ethos will deliver 23 litres/min, that is unvented cylinder territory. Backup? Put an instant electric heater in the combi outlet. Want a secondary circulation loop to give instant DHW at the taps? They have one. All done!!

The Ethos is highly cost effective..and delivers.

 

[doitall]

Yes the Ethos can deliver and is a good boiler, but 11.5 L/m shared between 2 outlets is rubbish

 

[monkeybird]

thanks for all your replies...

the boiler is gas fired and the guy said the smell was just incomplete combustion products... now I thought it was those which gave off carbon monoxide...?!! Should I trust his judgement if he's wrong about the pipes? don't want to expose my 3 kids to anything nasty...

it smells kind of like gas but a bit more sort of 'fruity' or musty, I don't really know how to describe it. It's definitely not gas like straight from the pipe though...

would appreciate a bit more techie advice on the pipes issue since presumably the installer will have to have some sort of connector that can cope with the change in size?

And what about pressure issues - the guy who came out wasn't convinced a modern condensing boiler would be able to get the water round the system with such wide bore pipes, but I dunno... Presumably the old boiler is doing it pretty well?! Perhaps he was thinking about a combi...

didn't mean to start a war about combi/ethos or not, but would appreciate a bit more guidance on the systems you mention. Ideally I'd like maximum water available with a decent flow rate for a good shower, so at least two of us can shower in quick succession. Later on, it might be under more demand than that (ie when my boys finally learn what the bathroom is for, doubtless only when girls are on the scene!)

and finally (I think! thanks for being patient!) how do I go about finding a boiler guy who actually knows what he's talking about and doesn't panic when he sees our idiosyncratic system?

Thanks in anticipation
Monkeybird

 

[monkeybird]

sorry - there was more!

should also have said, he advised us NOT to flush out the system with whatever it is that you flush out with since this might put "more strain on the joins" and the cast iron might weaken in places causing leaks...

Is this also not correct advice?

 

[doitall]

In my profile you will find my email address, and being retired allbeit not voluntary I know these system like the back of my hand.

When you talk of cast iron, I hope you mean steel, otherwise you will have major problems.

Steel pipes when looked after are better than any other material, but they do rust and need replacing, only an site survey could determine there condition

 

[Doctor Drivel]

Yes the Ethos can deliver and is a good boiler, but 11.5 L/m shared between 2 outlets is rubbish

AGAIN!!!!!! 23 litres/minute Got it?

 

[doitall]

Yes the Ethos can deliver and is a good boiler, but 11.5 L/m shared between 2 outlets is rubbish

AGAIN!!!!!! 23 litres/minute Got it?

Yep, that 11.5 for each of 2 outlets, even I worked that out about equal to a poor combi doing 1 bathroom, or in other words rubbish.

Give me 11L/m for 2 bathrooms, plus the washing machine and the kitchen sink and I would be interested.

Is it advisable to connect an Ethos to an gravity system.

 

[Biggles..]

The carbon monoxide meter, did that give those figures(37ppm) in the room?

 

[twgas]

be wary of cast iron rads on new boilers, apparently some manufacturers do not approve