Wiring a ceiling light fitting

[Talby]

Hi,

I have moved into a property where one of the ceiling fittings was removed. I have a new light fitting but looking at the existing wiring am at a loss as to how to put the two together.

The existing set up has three separate cables. Two have an earth and a black and a red wire. The other has an earth and two red wires.

All the earth wires are connected to a single terminal in a block. All the black and red wires are connected to various terminals in another block.

The new fitting has a terminal block.

Any advice on how to put the new and old together.

First two pictures are of existing and third of new.

Thanks

Existing Ceiling

• Talby
• 6 Apr 2015
• 1

Existing Ceiling

• Talby
• 6 Apr 2015
• 1

New Fitting

• Talby
• 6 Apr 2015
• 1

 

[danechip]

Neutral to the blacks, Live to the single red and earth. I would link a piece of wire between the two blocks and push that block back up where it came from.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

In your pictures it shows three red conductors connected together, this is the live loop, they need to kept connected together but not directly to the light fitting. So a separate connector is required for that. Do not be tempted to pop this connector up in to the ceiling void, it needs to be within the enclosure of the light plate/rose.

You then have a single red core, this goes to live of light.
The two black cores that are currently connected together are terminated at the neutral of the light.
The earths/CPCs (green/yellow) are terminated at the earth terminal.

The existing connector blocks can be cut down to single pairs, which will make it more manageable to terminate the live loop reds to, and leave inside the fitting. Not in ceiling void, as doing that is potentially dangerous.

You have a metallic light fitting that requires connecting to earth, it would also be recommended by me, that the earth continuity is verified by testing, to prove you have an earth fault path.

 

[Talby]

In you pictures it shows three red conductors connected together, this is the live loop, they need to kept connected together but not directly to the light fitting. So a separate connector is required for that. Do not be tempted to pop this connector up in to the ceiling void, it needs to be within the enclosure of the light plate/rose.

You then have a single red core, this goes to live of light.
The two black cores that are currently connected together are terminated at the neutral of the light.
The earths/CPCs (green/yellow) are terminated at the earth terminal.

The existing connector blocks can be cut down to single pairs, which will make it more manageable to terminate the live loop reds to, and leave inside the fitting. Not in ceiling void, as doing that is potentially dangerous.

You have a metallic light fitting that requires connecting to earth, it would also way be recommended by me that the earth continuity is verified by testing, to prove you have an earth fault path.

Thanks for the quick and detailed response. So, just to be absolutely clear.

Apologies for spelling it out and probably stating the bleeding obvious and sounding like an idiot but I just want to be sure.

The live terminal on the new light fitting should be connected to the only unoccupied terminal of the block that has the live and neutrals connected.

The neutral on the new light fitting needs to be connected to either of the two terminals that has an existing black wire. It doesn't matter which one.

The earth on the new light fitting has to be connected to the terminal opposite the terminal in the block that has the exiting 3 earths connected.

What is the best way to join the light fitting terminal to the cable terminals in the ceiling?

Thanks

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Firstly, you will take the conductors out of the connectors and terminate directly to light (except the live loop, which needs terminating separately)

The live terminal on the new light fitting should be connected to the only unoccupied terminal of the block that has the live and neutrals connected.

Your picture shows a three block connector that has 3 reds connected together that is the live loop. The one remaining red is the connected to the live of light.

The neutral on the new light fitting needs to be connected to either of the two terminals that has an existing black wire. It doesn't matter which one.

The two blacks (neutral) are both connected to the neutral of the light.

The earth on the new light fitting has to be connected to the terminal opposite the terminal in the block that has the exiting 3 earths connected.

You remove those conductors and fit directly to the terminal block marked earth on the light.

What is the best way to join the light fitting terminal to the cable terminals in the ceiling?

Disconnect those conductors form the connectors pictured and terminate them directly to those of the light fitting, with exception of the three reds in the live loop, they stay connected together and not connected directly to the fitting.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

This link shows what you have and what should be done, as stated on link there is no need to wrap the loop connector up, and do not stick this up in the ceiling void.
//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Lighting-Rose

 

[Talby]

Firstly, you will take the conductors out of the connectors and terminate directly to light (except the live loop, which needs terminating separately)

The live terminal on the new light fitting should be connected to the only unoccupied terminal of the block that has the live and neutrals connected.

Your picture shows a three block connector that has 3 reds connected together that is the live loop. The one remaining red is the connected to the live of light.

The neutral on the new light fitting needs to be connected to either of the two terminals that has an existing black wire. It doesn't matter which one.

The two blacks (neutral) are both connected to the neutral of the light.

The earth on the new light fitting has to be connected to the terminal opposite the terminal in the block that has the exiting 3 earths connected.

You remove those conductors and fit directly to the terminal block marked earth on the light.

What is the best way to join the light fitting terminal to the cable terminals in the ceiling?

Disconnect those conductors form the connectors pictured and terminate them directly to those of the light fitting, with exception of the three reds in the live loop, they stay connected together and not connected directly to the fitting.

Thanks again.

So disconnect all wires from the blocks except the 3 reds that are connected to the same terminal and leave those as they are. I do nothing at all with those.

Disconnect and connect the two blacks directly to the neutral terminal on light fitting.

Disconnect and connect the single red directly to the live terminal on the light fitting.

Disconnect and connect the 3 earths directly to the earth terminal on light fitting.

I can get of all the blocks and terminals except the one with with the 3 reds in and cut it down to fit easier in the housing.

Thanks

 

[sparkwright]

Sounds good.

You will cut off the unused blocks, and keep the remaining ones with the reds.

Be careful not to cut too much plastic away as you don't want to expose any more of the metal part of the connector.

May be an idea to check the terminal is tightened sufficiently, as it may have got distubed.

 

[Talby]

Sounds good.

You will cut off the unused blocks, and keep the remaining ones with the reds.

Be careful not to cut too much plastic away as you don't want to expose any more of the metal part of the connector.

May be an idea to check the terminal is tightened sufficiently, as it may have got distubed.

All sorted and the Mrs off my back - for now. Cheers

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Shame that your Mrs doesn't care enough for your, and her, safety to have impressed on you how essential it is to learn about, and come to genuinely understand how electrical circuits etc work BEFORE you decide to lay hands on them

 

[RF Lighting]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It's OK chaps - I have been quite aware for some considerable time that neither of you agree that people should be competent to do electrical work, and that you have no cares for their safety when you encourage the view that having a go and hoping to get it right by luck is a perfectly sound basis on which to do it, so you did not need to make, or thank, that post.

 

[bernardgreen]

It's OK chaps - I have been quite aware for some considerable time that neither of you agree that people should be competent to do electrical work,

That is un-fair. I read their posts as saying they believe people should be competent.

I am sure they also realise that giving simple and helpful advice to a person who is incompetent but determined to do the work will reduce the risks of that person creating a hazard to themselves or others.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That is un-fair.

No it isn't.

I read their posts as saying they believe people should be competent.

Over and over again they give idiot-guide-electrical-installation-by-numbers-put-the-red-wire-in-this-hole-and-the-black-one-in-that-one advice to people who they KNOW don't actually understand why. Over and over again they criticise me for daring to express my firm opinion that a true understanding is essential, and that doing the work without such an understanding is unacceptable.

Over and over again they give succour to those who do not see why their ignorance should be a bar to them fiddling with things they don't understand.

I am sure they also realise that giving simple and helpful advice to a person who is incompetent but determined to do the work will reduce the risks of that person creating a hazard to themselves or others.

They are grievously, callously, uncaringly, irresponsibly wrong in that "realisation". It is not truly "helpful" to anybody to encourage and facilitate them in fiddling with things which they do not understand. It is not truly "helpful" to the population at large to do anything except promote the idea that true competence is absolutely essential, that diving in and having a go without that competence is unacceptable and will not be supported.

The only helpful thing to do, and the only responsible thing to do, is to help people to acquire the knowledge and understanding which they MUST acquire, not to just use them as a remote controlled device.

The only helpful and responsible thing to do is to continually press home the message that there is absolutely no acceptable alternative to acquiring that knowledge before they start actually doing things.

 

[JohnW2]

It's OK chaps - I have been quite aware for some considerable time that neither of you agree that people should be competent to do electrical work...

As bernard has said, that is unfair. It also should be "none", rather than "neither", because bernard and myself were agreeing with RF.

In any event, what we were agreeing with was nothing to do with whether or not people should be competent but, rather, that absolutely nothing is achieved by your posting your view on this matter time after time after time. Your posts are particularly unhelpful when (as in this case) they are 'after the event' - since you then cannot even claim that you are trying to dissuade an OP from doing something (s)he should not be doing.

Kind Regards, John