Worth getting boiler with external temperature compensation?

[bengasman]

You really need to understand weather compensation and its benefits. You are trying top justify your lack of knowledge on the topic.

I understand wc and the benefits perfectly, I just don't think the financial savings are interesting in a standard domestic situation; what's a tenner per year?

...which will rot in 15 to 20 years.

I put inhibitor in the systems I install, AND make sure it stays topped up; no rotting in 15, 20 or even 50 years.

You are implying weather compensators breaks down. They rarely do.

I did not imply anything. I am STATING that they CAN break down. IF they do at any time outside the warrantee period, but inside 15-20 years, the break even point financially moves to about 2 decades. That is simply not a safe investment in terms of return.

 

[GaytonTonner]

I put inhibitor in the systems I install, AND make sure it stays topped up;

Few get topped up regularly and most after 10 years are full of sludge.

You are implying weather compensators breaks down. They rarely do.

I did not imply anything. I am STATING that they CAN break down. IF they do at any time outside the warrantee period, but inside 15-20 years, the break even point financially moves to about 2 decades. That is simply not a safe investment in terms of return.

You have to know the percentage of break down to express such a strong view. I have not come across any that have broken down.

Your warped views of "terms of return" are merely an attempt to justify your lack of knowledge on weather compensation. Nothing else. People here have put you right. Take their advice.

 

[Norcon]

This slow to warm up is total nonsense

Spot on and its where the better controllers comes into their own on ufh installations with high thermal mass.
And the boiler well oversized to give the controller/mixing valve arrangement what it wants, when it wants.

 

[dumbrill]

I've read the Vaillant VRC430f manual again and I see it has option to allow the temp ramp up, but only if it's setup correctly. I guess anyone who had the setting below set to 'none' would suffer slow heating up times.

"
Switch-on room temp. (operating level for expert
technicians)

You can specify whether or not the temperature sensor
fitted in the VRC 430f should be used in screen C8 "HC1
Parameter" under the "Switch-on room temp." menu
item.

The following inputs are possible in the menu point
"Switch-on room temp.":

– None
The temperature sensor is not used for control.
– Switch on
The in-built temperature sensor measures the current
room temperature in the reference room. This value is
compared with the target room temperature and the
heating flow temperature is adjusted in the event of
deviation.
– Thermostat
The in-built temperature sensor measures the current
room temperature in the reference room. If the measured
value is below the target room temperature the
heating flow temperature is increased and if the value
is above the target room temperature the appliance is
switched off.

The use of the switch-on room temp., in combination
with careful selection of the heating curve, leads to optimum
control of the heating system.
"

 

[ChrisR]

I'm very critical of what's on offer, for all sorts of reasons. It could all be done so much better.

But there are savings to be made, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's better than 2%, which is/was a CIBSE figure too.

Trouble can be, that the system often appears to be out of the householder's control, which has all sorts of consequences, like it gets disabled.
And the better the control system (eg like that Vaillant), the worse it can be , if you're a normal person and not a Geek like us.
I'd have it, bit wouldn't put it in for my Mum.
I hope in a few years it's all a lot better, with displays telling users what's going on, and we do away with silly garden temperature sensors which aren't necessary or sufficient. I won't hold my breath though.

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Who would have thought that fitting a toilet to a boiler would cause such controversy, but then all new boilers are ****te and WC should come as standard

 

[ChrisR]

Yeah, it's so you can Flush them.

 

[bengasman]

...Your warped views of "terms of return" are merely an attempt to justify your lack of knowledge on weather compensation. Nothing else.

That's a circular argument. You disagree with my statement that wc is not a sound investment because it saves only about 1% on the annual gasbill (in my case about £7 p/a), therefore I am wrong.

But let's step away from the "should be's" and "might happens" in terms of problems with wc or rusting rads

My gas bill for last year was about £650.

Based on that number, how much would you claim I would have saved if I added the wc of your choice to the boiler of your choice, compared to having that same boiler without wc?

 

[GaytonTonner]

...Your warped views of "terms of return" are merely an attempt to justify your lack of knowledge on weather compensation. Nothing else.

That's a circular argument. You disagree with my statement that wc is not a sound investment because

Why don't you get to know more about w/comp instead of using this absurd negative logic of yours.

 

[mehran]

only you bengasman think it can only save 1%. my figure of 5% was a conservative estimate over and above all other saving.

I fit more efficiency system for my customers... if you dont, than that is fine.

 

[bengasman]

only you bengasman think it can only save 1%. my figure of 5% was a conservative estimate over and above all other saving.

That is because we are quoting from different reference points.
I am quoting percentage of gasbill going down. (The only thing that most people are really interested in is how many ££££s they are going to save.)
You are quoting percentage of EXTRA saving of wc on he boiler compared to late model se boiler.
Despite the propaganda, that difference is only 10% (se -> he) the wc raises that to 12%.
So to make it sound like the best thing since sliced bread, the advertising boys take the INCREASE as a reference point (the 10%). 10% to 12% is a 20% increase of the 10%.

 

[mehran]

so the only saving you get for a se to he boiler is 10%? so the £200 gas saving so far only £90 of it can be put down to simply having a condensing boiler and the other is down to what?

 

[bengasman]

Se boilers like performa, cdi, biasi parva and that kind are ~80 efficient, the older ones are worse. Lucky to get overall 50% out of a bahama if you include the ventilation heatlosses.

 

[mysteryman]

Back in the early '90s I was asked to sort out the heating in a huge Victorian semi. There was an ancient cast iron boiler on gravity primaries, which only heated part of the house.

I put in a new condensing boiler of twice the capacity, an Albion Superduty cylinder, enough radiators to heat the whole of the top storey, a Honeywell AQ6000 , plus a four oven gas Aga.

I used to go back every now and then to do other jobs and servicing. The client, a charming man and an eminent barrister, told me on one such occasion how pleased he was. He said that the whole house was always at the right temperature, unlike before, that they never ran short of hot water - and that they were using no more gas than before.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Lucky to get overall 50% out of a bahama if you include the ventilation heatlosses.

My son had his Bahama replaced by a Remeha Avanta in November 2009.

His gas bill for the last 12 months was 80% of the previous 12 months bill and 73% of the previous three years.