Wylex standard with incorrect MCB fitted

[JohnD]

I'm old enough to be familiar with the old Standards that were designed for fuseholders intended for circuits up to 30a, where some of them had an extra-rated position that would accept an oversized 40A fuseholder for a large cooker or electric shower.

I mentioned to someone the other day that the 40A MCB fitted to their Standard in a 30A-max way was incorrect, and was surprised when they they showed me their recent EICR which made no comment on it. There was also no comment on the single 30ma RCD in the tails, which will cut off power to all circuits, including lighting, when it trips.

has folk-knowledge of the limitations of the Standard now dwindled among young electricians?

 

[AndyPRK]

Well single rcd was ok when fitted

 

[JohnD]

not even worth a C3 recommendation?

 

[flameport]

has folk-knowledge of the limitations of the Standard now dwindled among young electricians?

Was it ever there in the first place?

 

[securespark]

I think standards of education have dropped.
My Mum's O levels were much harder than mine. Today's GCSE's are much easier than mine.
Some years ago, I spoke to my Course Lecturer who told me the course content of today's BTEC course is far less encompassing than the BTEC I did at college in the 80's. In fact, he said "Yours went from A-Z. Today's go from A-C with a tiny touch on some other letters."
I think the standards of C&G teaching have fallen since I did my course in the 80's.
I have come across many young sparks who lack so much UPK.

 

[securespark]

As far as the 32+ breakers/ fuses in 60A Wylex boards go, I have always marked them at risk. The tabs on the shields are there for a reason, either they are fitted and are wonky or the installer has to nibble the tabs off. Either way, they know damn well it's not right!

 

[flameport]

This is what the high current version looks like - note the cutout next to the top right terminal for the matching tab on the shield, and that the terminals themselves are a different design to the others.

and this is the normal version, maximum 30A, that someone had shoved a 40A or higher into. No cutout for the tab, terminals of the same design as the others, and considerable damage due to the excessive current.

 

[securespark]

That's a lot of splashing...

 

[bernardgreen]

I think standards of education have dropped.
My Mum's O levels were much harder than mine. Today's GCSE's are much easier than mine.

You think correctly.

Last year some students with 2017 passes at "A" level GCSE were given 1960's "O" level exams. They failed to get a pass mark.

 

[ericmark]

Well I started in the late 60's early 70's and until flame ports post I did not know there was a high current version of the fuse box, however I have never tried to fit a fuse carrier over 30A in that type of fuse box, so never looked at a 40A MCB, in the main old boxes have MCB's replacing the fuse today, so they are not removed under load, so unlikely to arc.

 

[JohnW2]

Last year some students with 2017 passes at "A" level GCSE were given 1960's "O" level exams. They failed to get a pass mark.

... and it's not at all recent a phenomenon ...

... when my daughters were doing their A-Levels, best part of 20 years ago, some of their friends (not them!) were doing Maths. I showed them some of my (1960s) A-Level and S-Level Maths papers and, in many cases, they didn't really understand the questions, let alone have a clue as to how to answer them. In contrast, even 40 years on, I think I could have had a fair stab at the papers they were doing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

Well I started in the late 60's early 70's and until flame ports post I did not know there was a high current version of the fuse box, however I have never tried to fit a fuse carrier over 30A in that type of fuse box, so never looked at a 40A MCB, in the main old boxes have MCB's replacing the fuse today, so they are not removed under load, so unlikely to arc.

I think the 40 was orange, i recall they even made a Green 45A one.
I vaquely recall they had 60A on the main switch
Doing a lot of old pub work, we often encountered bigger fuses fitted wonky with the Tab still on or with the tab cut off, or a few times with the back shield just left off.

 

[AndyPRK]

Yeah I remember the green ones.

 

[ericmark]

My maths is not very good, so before trying for a better degree, I decided I needed to improve my maths, but A level maths seemed to be different to what I had been doing, they did not touch imaginary numbers, however they did do statistics, the latter to a much higher level than I was use to.

I would not say harder or easier, I would say different, in my day "Do you know logs" meant can you use a set of log tables to help you do a some, today they are talking about how those tables were compiled.

As to the Physics A level that was crazy, in some areas they went rather deep, yet the circuit diagram for a fluorescent tube totally missed out the ballast.

The point is one is in school same amount of hours per day now as when I was at school, but they are trying to teach how to use computers, and other items which did not exist when I was at school, so something has to be left out, my dad left school and did an apprenticeship 5 years in one firm then two years journeyman with 6 months in 4 other firms so 7 years in all, and collage was as a night class. However he completed at 21 as he started at 14 years old. I only did a 5 year apprenticeship again finishing at 21 as did not leave school until 16, today the aim is still to complete the apprenticeship at 21 but not leaving school until 18.

So children learn a load of stuff they don't need which means they don't learn what they do need, and although engineering wise there are some things we no longer need, I was taught how to use steam tables, for example, there is more added than taken away. So if you teach a student how to program a PLC then there is something we were taught which has to be dropped.

As to if they need the skill, well I was taught how to use VBA in Word to animate a drawing, why I don't know, can't see how that helps an electrician, or electrical engineer. We also were taught "Coms" again why I don't know, but in the communications lecture they talked about the swirling sands of the desert, and the lecturer explained, she was not amused when I said which desert have you been to, as that's not how the swirling sands work in the sahara where I have worked, and she admitted she had never even been to a desert. How can anyone explain something when they have never experienced it?

 

[JohnW2]

My maths is not very good, so before trying for a better degree, I decided I needed to improve my maths, but A level maths seemed to be different to what I had been doing, they did not touch imaginary numbers, however they did do statistics, the latter to a much higher level than I was use to. .... I would not say harder or easier, I would say different ....

One of the problems with subjects like Maths is that although, as you say, the A-Level curriculum is very 'different' (in some senses 'broader') from what it was in the past, undergraduate degrees in the subject are much the same as they have always been, and hence have much the same requirements of prior knowledge/skills as they always have done.

A friend of mine is a university lecturer in Maths, and he has been saying for some time that they have been seriously considering increasing their undergraduate course to four years, since they are now having to do a lot of initial teaching to bring people up to the level of knowledge/skill required to start what he calls 'the degree course proper'.

Kind Regards, John