You need a smart meter

[JohnW2]

.... Maybe masts do need renewing and some work is required, but if they simply removed the relay in the smart meter then it would not really be a problem. ... I would have no qualms about having one fitted if relay removed, and low night rate would suit me, as during the day we get solar.

Maybe that would satisfy you, but a lot of people seem to have concerns about 'smart' meters which relates to aspects other than the 'remote swith off' facility.

But rather than silly adds with freddy Boswell look alike, would be better to simply say if you get a smart meter night time electric will cost less.

I know you believe that dual-rate tariffs are no longer available to people without 'smart meters' who don't already have such tariffs, and I don't know if that is true - but, at least technologically, it's obviously possible to have a dual-rate tariff without a 'smart' meter'.

However, it's perhaps worth my repeating what I often say, is that one of the primary ultimate (beyond our lifetimes!) aims of 'smart' meters is to 'even out'' demand (or, at least, make its variation close to the variation in supply) over the 24 hours - and if we ever get close to that, then the concept of cheaper electricity at any particular part of the day/night will obviously go out of the window.

Returning to the point about communications, I have so far deterred my supplier from fitting a 'smart' meter in my house by telling them that it is extremely unlikely that they will be able to achieve RF communication for it but that, if they do fit such a meter, I will thereafter refuse point-blank to provided them with 'meter reading'- so, if they continue to want 'monthly meter readings' (which is what they currently ask me for), they will have to send out a meter reader every month

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Don't our nuclear subs use it?

They use Khz signalling, requiring very long antennas.

 

[JohnW2]

They use Khz signalling, requiring very long antennas.

Theoretically - but, although the land-based antennas with which they are communicating will undoubtedly be very long, there's a definite limit to how long the antenna can be in a submarine whose total length is only a very small fraction of a wavelength at the frequency concerned

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

'smart meters'

What is a "Smart Meter"? As you have said well before the smart meter we have meters with telemetry which could be monitored without the need of a meter reader, I know these were installed in pumping stations, and clearly meters could respond to remote commands this is how all the white meter was activated many years ago, I had an internet connected meter from Scottish Power that allowed them to adjust the charge close to what you had used, and it was corrected with a one a year reading, this also had a remote panel so I could see what I was using, and came with some plug in adaptors that allowed me to control some local equipment.

So the only thing the Smart meter can do which one can't do without it is to turn off the power remotely. The rest has been done for years without one, it does know direction of flow, but so does the modern "Dum" meter is shows rEd when reverse energy detected and it stops recording, and a separate meter records export.

If the smart meter went into some multi pole isolator so the user could use two outlets one emergency never being turned off, and the other cheap rate which could be switched that would make some sense. This is what we are getting with the EV charging point to an extent where the DNO can turn off the charging point when there is a high demand. But even that is not requiring a smart meter, its part of the charging system.

So what is "Smart" about the so called "Smart Meters"? Why is the ability to turn off ones supply considered "Smart"?

 

[Murdochcat]

The only things a smart meter can do is “report” your usage and meter readings.

I don’t need the former, and can manually do the latter each month with ease

 

[JBR]

Theoretically - but, although the land-based antennas with which they are communicating will undoubtedly be very long, there's a definite limit to how long the antenna can be in a submarine whose total length is only a very small fraction of a wavelength at the frequency concerned

Kind Regards, John

They reel out and trail very long cables as antennae.

 

[Murdochcat]

They reel out and trail very long cables as antennae.

Our local boosters

 

[JohnW2]

They reel out and trail very long cables as antennae.

Oh, clever - I hadn't thought of that

Mind you, if they are transmitting VLF via a 'very long antenna', that presumably doesn't help to keep them 'undetected'?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

What is a "Smart Meter"? As you have said well before the smart meter we have meters with telemetry which could be monitored without the need of a meter reader,

Indeed - and my water meter and monitoring of my LPG tank level have been done by telemetry for many years. Mind you, the water meter telemetry is a joke. Since it doesn't have an electricity supply, and therefore has to rely on charging a battery from the water flow, it's telemetry range is very limited, so they have to come and park a van at the end of my drive in order to get a reading! However, the LPG tank has true long-range telemetry.

So the only thing the Smart meter can do which one can't do without it is to turn off the power remotely.

There's potentially a lot more to it than that, even now (and 'intended' to be far more in the future). The communication is two-way, so that customers can, for example, be informed in essentially real-time about. However, as I understand it, in the future the idea is that the meter will actually control the use of energy - but that has to wait until there are 'smart appliances' for them to control !

As for 'smart', I always put it in quotes, since I regard them as being incredibly 'dumb', not much more than 'passive', in the context oof 21st century technology. At least as used today, they are simply a way of storing numbers in a dozen or three 'registers', coupled with a communications facility and a remotely-controlled switch - all things which could theoretically probably have been done 50 or more years ago. In terms of 'processing', they are 'infinitely' less 'smart' than my mobile phone, and probably a lot less 'smart' than even the processors in many of my (mainly very cheap!) household appliances!

If the smart meter went into some multi pole isolator so the user could use two outlets one emergency never being turned off, and the other cheap rate which could be switched that would make some sense.

Interesting idea, but I'm not sure how you would aim to control who plugged what into the "emergency, never being turned off" outlets!

So what is "Smart" about the so called "Smart Meters"? Why is the ability to turn off ones supply considered "Smart"?

As above, I agree (even though, as above, there's more to it than the one function you mention). However, I think the only thing wrong was the choice of the word used to describe them.

KInd Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Oh, clever - I hadn't thought of that

Mind you, if they are transmitting VLF via a 'very long antenna', that presumably doesn't help to keep them 'undetected't?

The very rarely transmit, the idea is to receive.

 

[RandomGrinch]

The very rarely transmit, the idea is to receive.

Projects Sanguine and ELF are fascinating.

Project Sanguine - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

With such a low data rate, the ELF signal is only a ringer; once a signal is detected, the sub will rise to a communication depth.

 

[ericmark]

Interesting idea, but I'm not sure how you would aim to control who plugged what into the "emergency, never being turned off" outlets!

If the always live bit has a 6 amp limit and live what all OK has 100 amp limit that's easy enough, same as my solar panels with battery back up, once the grid connection is lost I have just 5 outlets working.

I know the role out of 'Smart' meters in France caused problems, they pay more for higher amps, so can have a 16 amp supply or 32 amp supply etc. They were limited by devices which would allow a short excess current can't remember if fuse or MCB but a bit like us with caravans. But when the smart meter arrived it disconnected as soon as there was an overload.

But with one hand they are asking us to use more electric with heat pumps and EV's and with other hand they want to reduce what we are using, I know batteries can smooth out our demand, but this has nothing to do with 'Smart' meters, I know when the red line lifts to the zero point I am running on solar

so from 8:20 am today I have not been drawing from the grid, neither have I been exporting, but I can see all this without a 'Smart' meter, so what does the 'Smart' meter tell me which I don't already know? Would be interesting to see some ones graph from their 'Smart' meter, yes my SCARTA suffers from delay, I am not really charging the battery at 19 W at same time as importing 402 W one is direct and other is from a server so the time delay shows as some anomalies. So I am told anyway.

But anyway what does the 'Smart' meter do which is not already being done other than allow remote disconnection of my supply? And why would I want that?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Indeed - and my water meter and monitoring of my LPG tank level have been done by telemetry for many years. Mind you, the water meter telemetry is a joke. Since it doesn't have an electricity supply, and therefore has to rely on charging a battery from the water flow, it's telemetry range is very limited, so they have to come and park a van at the end of my drive in order to get a reading!

Our local water supplier describe it as 'drive by' meter reading. I changed to a meter around six years ago, meter at the back of the house, furthest away from the road, never any issues (I am aware of) with them getting the readings, and in that time, I have never seen one of their vans parked at the end of my drive.

I did wonder what frequency they transmit on, but I suppose they only transmit, when called to respond by the van?

 

[morqthana]

But anyway what does the 'Smart' meter do which is not already being done other than allow remote disconnection of my supply?

Nothing yet.

And why would I want that?

So that you are in an infrastructure where it's not all-or-nothing, or everybody-or-nobody, and come the day when you or someone in the house needs some equipment to stay alive you don't have to be cut off when they need to reduce the load. Or if they just have to cut the load by 10% you only get hit one time in ten, and the next nine times its one of your neighbours.

 

[morqthana]

Re subs - I thought that if they stop hearing from the chain of command they use an X-day absence of R4 long wave as confirmation of destruction of the country and open those letters of last resort.