2013 Part P changes

[tom91]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013_DRAFT.pdf

Apologies if this has already been posted and discussed - haven't seen anything though.

 

[bhm1712]

good news at last.

The main change which sticks out to me:

''An installer who is not a registered competent person may use a registered third party to certify notifiable electrical installation works as an alternative to using a building control body''

This means people like myself can now do work in our own homes without paying through the nose to the LABC to notify. However, without looking at the new approved document P in more detail, i dont know what will be involved in this new process.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The main change which sticks out to me:

''An installer who is not a registered competent person may use a registered third party to certify notifiable electrical installation works as an alternative to using a building control body''

I thought this method had been recognised for a couple years now?

 

[JohnW2]

From the viewpoint of the competent (everyday meaning) DIYer, these much-discussed changes are certainly a move in the right direction - essentially reducing notification to new circuits, new CUs and work in special locations, and allowing 'third-party certification' of notifiable work undertaken by people otehr than self-certifying electricians.

...This means people like myself can now do work in our own homes without paying through the nose to the LABC to notify. However, without looking at the new approved document P in more detail, i dont know what will be involved in this new process.

The one thing which is not clear (at least, not to me), since it's not the direct concern of Part P or Approved Document P, is the matter of the fee that LABCs will charge for notification of work that is to be certified by a 'third party certifer'. The most optimistic people seem to be assuming that it will only be a trivial charge (like that for self-certification), but I rather doubt that this is the case. Does anyone know more about this?

I'm also not clear as to what will be required for someone to become a 'registered third party certifer' - will all self-certifying electricians be eligible, or will there be additional requirements? ... and, of course, I wonder what they will be charging for their certtification! Any thoughts about that?

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

good news at last.

The main change which sticks out to me:

''An installer who is not a registered competent person may use a registered third party to certify notifiable electrical installation works as an alternative to using a building control body''

This means people like myself can now do work in our own homes without paying through the nose to the LABC to notify. However, without looking at the new approved document P in more detail, i dont know what will be involved in this new process.

Ah well

In essence, you can do the work but you have to find/get a person who is a REGISTERED THIRD PARTY CERTIFIER to check, sign off and notify the work. These will not be the current slew of DIs etc.

Part P registration organisations will make more money by creating an extra tier of super-sparks who will be the holders of REGISTERED THIRD PARTY CERTIFIER status.


The major change that i can see is that the ONLY special location that requires notification is now bathroom areas zones 1 and 2.
Kitchens are not mentioned, nor is electrical installations outside the house. This is a serious backward step into the dark ages of kitchen fitters and landscape gardeners. I despair. There's hardly any point making the effort and cost to be registered.

 

[JohnW2]

The major change that i can see is that the ONLY special location that requires notification is now bathroom areas zones 1 and 2. Kitchens are not mentioned, nor is electrical installations outside the house. This is a serious backward step into the dark ages of kitchen fitters and landscape gardeners. I despair.

Yes, I forgotto mention that.

I have to say that I've always considered the kitchen thing to be a bit irrational, not the least because the issues of wet naked bodies do not (often!) arise in kitchens - and I actually doubt that there are significantly greater (electrical) hazards in a kitchen than anywhere else. At the very very least, I would have expected them to have created 'zones' within kitchens, as in bathrooms - it's always seemed ridiculous to me that work on lights on kitchen ceilings (say >2.25m above FFL), or umpteen metres from any water or appliances was notifiable.

I am rather surprised that outdoor electrical installations appear to have got off the notification hook.

I suppose it's wishful thinking, but I wonder if any of this may be properly evidence-based - i.e. has someone ascertained that injury/damage due to faulty electrical installations is no more common in kitchens and outdoors than anywhere else?

Kind Regards, John

 

[SaladFingers]

Notification? For works in your own home?

Say what?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Notification? For works in your own home?

Of course, don't tell me you've been breaking the law in Chateau Finger

Just wait 'till I call the Part P police.

 

[SaladFingers]

Notification? For works in your own home?

Of course, don't tell me you've been breaking the law in Chateau Finger

Just wait 'till I call the Part P police.

I shall instruct for the draw bridge to be raised!

 

[EFLImpudence]

The one thing which is not clear (at least, not to me), since it's not the direct concern of Part P or Approved Document P, is the matter of the fee that LABCs will charge for notification of work that is to be certified by a 'third party certifer'. The most optimistic people seem to be assuming that it will only be a trivial charge (like that for self-certification), but I rather doubt that this is the case. Does anyone know more about this?

I cannot imagine the LABC charging £1.50 for anything.

I'm also not clear as to what will be required for someone to become a 'registered third party certifer'

As it is at present, I would say nothing as AD P requires an EICR so legally anyone can do it.
This is not a satisfactory method because, as you know, the work could have been done very badly but test satisfactorily.

Were you to supervise the work throughout (as you could now) and issue a n EIC then, as now, it could be registered with the registration body for the £1.50.

will all self-certifying electricians be eligible, or will there be additional requirements?

As above, unless new restrictions are introduced.

and, of course, I wonder what they will be charging for their certtification! Any thoughts about that?

More than £1.50.

Not considering the reduced notification which may be good, at first glance the document would seem to offer hope of some improvement but the more I look at it the more it would seem to be merely a shift of inspection from the LABC to another person.
That may be good and cheaper if a DIYer actually wants a very small job inspected and tested but that is only because the LA are charging too much at present.

I don't think it will make much difference but if more charges were introduced by the registration bodies for more pretend qualifications then who would want to do it?

 

[Spark123]

As it is only a draft guidance document I'll wait until I see the official document before I start knocking my kitchen to bits!!
(Or maybe not, I'll just raise my Draw bridge too )

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Looking at definitions given with regards to
Registered Installer and Registered Certifier, my fear is that these could actually be two different entities as far as the scheme provider services are concerned. So it maybe a case were the scheme provider would be asking for two different registrations, which I have no doubt would incur additional charges to the registered person.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As it is only a draft guidance document

Are you sure?

As for draft, that is.
It will always be only guidance.

 

[Chri5]

I shall instruct for the ELECTRIC draw bridge to be raised! [/quote]

Which is on a external radial run along a shabby fence in TE and doesn't work when it snows or rains

 

[SaladFingers]

I shall instruct for the ELECTRIC draw bridge to be raised!

Which is on a external radial run along a shabby fence in TE and doesn't work when it snows or rains [/quote]

Why would it be shabby or not done properly?

Anyway, it's mechanical retraction that will be wound up by Christmas elves.