Where has he gone?

[EFLImpudence]

People with the psychological disorders mentioned do not have the ability to 'behave normally if they want to' (but choose not to).

Have you got one 'not' too many?

 

[John D v2.0]

Not to my understanding, no.

People with the psychological disorders mentioned do not have the ability to 'behave normally if they want to' (but choose not to).

Kind Regards, John

In my experience people certainly are completely aware, but changing is not really possible, maybe pretending. Being aware of your behavior is different from choose to be like that.
To put it in perspective as a poor analogy, imagine you're at a party but you don't feel up for it, you'll be either grumpy to people (and aware of it) or pretending you're having a great time to avoid offending people. Pretending wouldn't really reflect how you feel, and would take unnecessary effort.

In the case of aspergers it's debatable whether it's even a "problem" or just an atypical psychology with different benefits.

Nowadays people do speculate, in the same way we're doing now, whether many great thinkers of the past eg Einstein were on the autistic spectrum.

Anyway as I summed up before, everyone's different, that's what makes life interesting!

 

[JohnW2]

I don't really know how to put this but some, I have to say you as much as any, would, while knowing what he was/is like, argue relentlessly with him knowing full well that you would get nowhere. As Reeves and Mortimer would say "They wouldn't let it lie" when that would have been the best course of action.

Yes, I'm sure that I did that quite often - probably because I am very similar to him in that I don't like having to 'give in' (or 'let lie') when I sincerely believed myself to be right. However, I don't think that makes either of us 'discriminatory', or indicate that either of us (him or me) is autistic or suffering from Asperger's Syndrome, does it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

In my experience people certainly are completely aware, but changing is not really possible, maybe pretending. Being aware of your behaviour is different from choose to be like that.

Sure, if they are suffering from those conditions, they will often have insight, but do not have the ability to 'change' (although, as you say, they may be able to 'pretend', or 'act', to some extent).

However, although I may have totally misjudged him, I very much believe that he is more than capable of 'really changing' (which, in itself, would be a pretty strong indication that he is not suffering from those conditions) - but does not believe that he should change, since that would be a betrayal of his beliefs and principles.

Kind Regards, John

 

[John D v2.0]

JohnW2, do you believe in free will? That one has kept philosophers busy since the earliest thinkers and they still haven't resolved it!

 

[EFLImpudence]

However, although I may have totally misjudged him, I very much believe that he is more than capable of 'really changing' (which, in itself, would be a pretty strong indication that he is not suffering from those conditions) - but does not believe that he should change, since that would be a betrayal of his beliefs and principles.

What is the difference if the outcome is not changing?

 

[EFLImpudence]

I can't find a reference anywhere (Google) but I'm sure I read it somewhere -

Wasn't there a genius (a real one) who was, what was thought to be, extremely rude and unhelpful to other people but it was just because things were so blatantly obvious to him that he just could not comprehend that other people could not see it as well?

 

[JohnW2]

Have you got one 'not' too many?

No, but perhaps what I wrote was not totally clear. How about:

"People with the psychological disorders mentioned do not have 'the ability to behave normally if they want to, but consciously choose not to exercise that ability' " [they do not have that ability in the first place, so can't choose not to exercise it]

Is that clearer?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Wasn't there a genius (a real one) who was, what was thought to be, extremely rude and unhelpful to other people but it was just because things were so blatantly obvious to him that he just could not comprehend that other people could not see it as well?

You appear to be describing my old A-Level maths teacher!! A brilliant Cambridge PhD but, just as you say, everything was so obvious to him that he was totally incapable of comprehending what problems of understanding others might have. His answer to questions like "How does equation 4 follow from Equation 3" would be along the lines of "..because it obviously does follow"

However, I don't think that anyone would have suggested that he was suffering from 'a psychological condition', or being 'discriminated against'. He was simply someone who should have been a true Academic, in some dusty corner of a dusty uni, who was trying, very unsuccessfully, to be a school teacher!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

"People with the psychological disorders mentioned do not have 'the ability to behave normally if they want to, but consciously choose not to exercise that ability' " [they do not have that ability in the first place, so can't choose not to exercise it]

Is that clearer?

No.
If they do not have the ability to behave normally (even if they want to) - how can they be choosing not to exercise that ability? They do not have that ability.

 

[EFLImpudence]

You appear to be describing my old A-Level maths teacher!! A brilliant Cambridge PhD but, just as you say, everything was so obvious to him that he was totally incapable of comprehending what problems of understanding others might have. His answer to questions like "How does equation 4 follow from Equation 3" would be along the lines of "..because it obviously does follow"

However, I don't think that anyone would have suggested that he was suffering from 'a psychological condition', or being 'discriminated against'. He was simply someone who should have been a true Academic, in some dusty corner of a dusty uni, who was trying, very unsuccessfully, to be a school teacher!

I wasn't suggesting that the person was suffering from 'a psychological condition'; but that he may have been (unjustly) perceived to have been.

 

[John D v2.0]

Whether someone is or isn't is neither here not there, in fact, having a label can be unhelpful anyway.
We're all people with our own needs and foibles, and here is an all inclusive place.

I think if we're all aware of the typical and atypical variations of human psychology, then we will be more prepared to get on with each other with understanding.

 

[JohnW2]

What is the difference if the outcome is not changing?

A very big difference. One is an inability to change because of a disease/condition. The other is a conscious decision not to changeon the part of someone who is quite capable of changing.

To suggest that someone's behaviour is due to a 'psychological condition' implies that we should be sympathetic and not blame them or be critical of that ('involuntary') behaviour. If their behaviour is something they could easily change, but choose not to, then we have every right to blame and criticise, if we do not approve of that behaviour.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I wasn't suggesting that the person was suffering from 'a psychological condition'; but that he may have been (unjustly) perceived to have been.

In that case, it sounds as if we are agreeing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I think if we're all aware of the typical and atypical variations of human psychology, then we will be more prepared to get on with each other with understanding.

Although the borderline is hard (essentially impossible!) to define, there's a big difference between the (wide) 'normal variations' in psychology/behaviour/personality on one hand and true psychopathology on the other hand. In the former case, if they behave in a manner which is perceived (by an individual, a group or 'society') as unacceptable, then that individual, group or society has every right to be be critical (and, if appropriate 'take action against' the perpetrator). In the second case, if someone does not know what they're doing, can't stop themselves doing it, or don't understand that it's 'wrong' (because of the psychopathology), then they deserve sympathy, tolerance and support/help (if possible).

Kind Regards, John