Quick check on part P compliance

[FingRinal]

Appendix 2 BS7671:2008.

 

[holmslaw]

Appendix 2 BS7671:2008.

Thats a list, I asked you name one, come on.

 

[FingRinal]

Choose any from the list..they all may or may not be used in addition to the one you asserted was the 'only one' which is applicable. Personally, I don't think you meant to say 'only one' but as you have now made a song and a dance about it, I can only reply accordingly.

 

[holmslaw]

Ha ha, so you can't name another one, thats all I needed to know.

Apologies for interrupting your squabble.

 

[FingRinal]

Ha ha, so you can't name another one, thats all I needed to know.

Apologies for interrupting your squabble.

OK, just for you and without looking, I'll pick the 3rd one down.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They don't mean anything so choose whichever words you like to describe this fact.

Their meaning is as clear as the fact that you aren't capable of understanding them.

I repeat, I'm sorry people like you can't understand simple English. It may mean to you whatever it means. However, that is not the same as saying that it can't mean anything else to anyone else.

But what about saying that it can't mean anything at all to anyone else?

I'm not falling for that one. I asked you first as it is you who asserted that common sense is defined in Law.

It's a pity that you don't take the same attitude regarding the question I first asked you, instead of raising irrelevant issues in an attempt to evade it.

Then supply all the variables instead of rather clumsily using a loaded gun technique.

I have supplied all the variables that relate to the specific question which I asked.

But I would ask which corner and exactly where?

And you criticise others for what you term "pedantry"??

I'm sorry that you think doing a proper job is pedantry. I'm sorry that you think location, length of cable run, installation method, design current etc. are the machinations of a pedant.

They are when they are completely irrelevant to the question asked. And in the case of some of them irrelevant in any circumstances to the question of whether something is notifiable.

I would ask if the socket were to be added to a new circuit.

That would be relevant to whether the work was notifiable. It is not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

I would ask if the socket were to be added in the kitchen, or an en-suite area, or a sauna.

They would be relevant to whether the work was notifiable. They are not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

In fact I would do my job properly and ascertain ALL of the facts instead of willy nilly committing my liability to such an open ended scenario.

And so you should. Presumably you would have a mental or written list of reasons, factors, questions, circumstances to qualify etc which you would run through to determine if a particular item of work was notifiable.

I'm not asking you if adding this socket is notifiable because of any of the possible reasons, I'm asking you about just one in particular.

Again, not enough information. Perhaps in your avant-garde open plan living space, you have an indoor waterfall cascading down the corner in question.

Again an evasion - if I had such a feature then it would be relevant to the general question of whether it is notifiable.

It is not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

We can go around and around with you continuing to say "Ah but what if.." and me replying "That what if has no relevance to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away" until the cows come home.

But each time we do it will look more and more as though you are simply trying to evade the question, and the question will remain unanswered.

By the way, I thought the Forum had rules on things like shouting. So please refrain from shouting otherwise the Moderators might rebuke you.

I wasn't shouting. In just the same way that if I was speaking to you, and you were having trouble hearing me, I might raise my voice, I made some of the words larger because you seemed to be having trouble seeing them clearly.

Perhaps I'll try using a different colour this time.

If an avant-garde warehouse conversion resulted in a non-partitioned rectangular living space 50m x 30m, and in one corner there was a shower, would you claim that adding a socket in the diagonally opposite corner was notifiable because there was a shower nearly 200' away?

 

[godsoftandjoearedull]

 

[FingRinal]

Which one is BAS and which one is Softie?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If an avant-garde warehouse conversion resulted in a non-partitioned rectangular living space 50m x 30m, and in one corner there was a shower, would you claim that adding a socket in the diagonally opposite corner was notifiable because there was a shower nearly 200' away?

 

[FingRinal]

But what about saying that it can't mean anything at all to anyone else?

What would be the point in saying that gibberish?

I'm not falling for that one. I asked you first as it is you who asserted that common sense is defined in Law.

It's a pity that you don't take the same attitude regarding the question I first asked you, instead of raising irrelevant issues in an attempt to evade it.

It's a pity you attempt to use ploys that would be immature in a kindergarten. And you evaded the question.

Then supply all the variables instead of rather clumsily using a loaded gun technique.

I have supplied all the variables that relate to the specific question which I asked.

Then I would say your incompetence is complete.

But I would ask which corner and exactly where?

And you criticise others for what you term "pedantry"??

I'm sorry that you think doing a proper job is pedantry. I'm sorry that you think location, length of cable run, installation method, design current etc. are the machinations of a pedant.

They are when they are completely irrelevant to the question asked. And in the case of some of them irrelevant in any circumstances to the question of whether something is notifiable.

You might think them irrelevant, but then you are not a professional and make a habit of slavish obedience to gibberish, mumbo jumbo and hocus-pocus.

I would ask if the socket were to be added to a new circuit.

That would be relevant to whether the work was notifiable.

It would also be relevant as to whether the work should be certified with a Minor Works or an EIC. It would also be relevant if the extra circuit loading affected Maximum Demand and the rating of the supply and associated switchgear. I don't expect you to consider such things as such things are technical irritants in a world of monkey see - monkey do.

It is not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

That depends on if the shower tray measures 200' or not. So again, your point is ridiculous and at best is 'clutching at straws'.

I would ask if the socket were to be added in the kitchen, or an en-suite area, or a sauna.

They would be relevant to whether the work was notifiable. They are not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

You can narrow your gibberish down to fine points if it makes you feel better. It doesn't alter the fact that your presumed scenario was more full of holes than a sieve.

In fact I would do my job properly and ascertain ALL of the facts instead of willy nilly committing my liability to such an open ended scenario.

And so you should. Presumably you would have a mental or written list of reasons, factors, questions, circumstances to qualify etc which you would run through to determine if a particular item of work was notifiable.

Of course, I am a professional - unlike you. Yet for some reason, you expect me to discard all professionalism to give you an answer to a gibberish scenario. I wish you would make up your mind.

I'm not asking you if adding this socket is notifiable because of any of the possible reasons, I'm asking you about just one in particular.

There might be other reasons, so limiting them to just one when other factors may have more of an influence is pointless.

Again, not enough information. Perhaps in your avant-garde open plan living space, you have an indoor waterfall cascading down the corner in question.

Again an evasion - if I had such a feature then it would be relevant to the general question of whether it is notifiable.

Not an evasion - just a smple observation of your inability to present a realistic scenario or commit yourself to facts.

It is not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

It might be notifiable if there were a bath 6 inches away. It sounds as though you are now getting desperate and that you have finally understood that your 'loaded' scenario is basically gibberish.

We can go around and around with you continuing to say "Ah but what if.." and me replying "That what if has no relevance to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away" until the cows come home.

I said this just about at the outset, yet you immediately embarked on the roundabout of gibberish.

But each time we do it will look more and more as though you are simply trying to evade the question, and the question will remain unanswered.

I am not prepared to offer an opinion on a loaded scenario that is gibberish.

By the way, I thought the Forum had rules on things like shouting. So please refrain from shouting otherwise the Moderators might rebuke you.

I wasn't shouting.

Internet etiqutte is now defined by BAS

In just the same way that if I was speaking to you, and you were having trouble hearing me, I might raise my voice, I made some of the words larger because you seemed to be having trouble seeing them clearly.

Is this your excuse for shouting. Pathetic. Quite pathetic.

Perhaps I'll try using a different colour this time.

Feel free, I'm not colour blind. But if the question is gibberish, I shan't answer it.

If an avant-garde warehouse conversion resulted in a non-partitioned rectangular living space 50m x 30m, and in one corner there was a shower, would you claim that adding a socket in the diagonally opposite corner was notifiable because there was a shower nearly 200' away?

Gibberish. Plain gibberish. It's just gibberish. Or is it mumbo jumbo? No, it's gibberish.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You might think them irrelevant, but then you are not a professional and make a habit of slavish obedience to gibberish, mumbo jumbo and hocus-pocus.

In what way are they relevant to whether the presence of a shower 200' away makes adding a socket notifiable?

I would ask if the socket were to be added to a new circuit.

That would be relevant to whether the work was notifiable.

It would also be relevant as to whether the work should be certified with a Minor Works or an EIC. It would also be relevant if the extra circuit loading affected Maximum Demand and the rating of the supply and associated switchgear.

Indeed, but in what way would it be relevant to whether the presence of a shower 200' away makes adding a socket notifiable?

I don't expect you to consider such things as such things are technical irritants in a world of monkey see - monkey do.

It's a shame that you are so determined to avoid answering a simple single-issue question that you resort to denigration like this.

In the overall process, of course, these are not technical irritants, but for now they don't have to be considered, unless you can show how they would be relevant to whether the presence of a shower 200' away makes adding a socket notifiable.

It is not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

That depends on if the shower tray measures 200' or not.

Does it?

Why?

So again, your point is ridiculous and at best is 'clutching at straws'.

Is it? In what way would the size of the shower tray be relevant to whether the presence of a shower 200' away makes adding a socket notifiable?

You can narrow your gibberish down to fine points if it makes you feel better.

In what way is "If an avant-garde warehouse conversion resulted in a non-partitioned rectangular living space 50m x 30m, and in one corner there was a shower, would you claim that adding a socket in the diagonally opposite corner was notifiable because there was a shower nearly 200' away?" unintelligible?

It doesn't alter the fact that your presumed scenario was more full of holes than a sieve.

Where are the holes in the simple question "If an avant-garde warehouse conversion resulted in a non-partitioned rectangular living space 50m x 30m, and in one corner there was a shower, would you claim that adding a socket in the diagonally opposite corner was notifiable because there was a shower nearly 200' away?" ?

Of course, I am a professional - unlike you. Yet for some reason, you expect me to discard all professionalism to give you an answer to a gibberish scenario. I wish you would make up your mind.

Were I to be asking you for a definitive and binding answer to the question "If an avant-garde warehouse conversion resulted in a non-partitioned rectangular living space 50m x 30m, and in one corner there was a shower, would you claim that adding a socket in the diagonally opposite corner was notifiable?" then you might reasonably object that you couldn't.

But I'm not asking you that - I'm asking you to tell us if one specific factor makes adding the socket notifiable.

Whether it does or does not has no bearing on whether other factors make it notifiable, and there is no reason why you cannot reasonably answer the question.

I'm not asking you if adding this socket is notifiable because of any of the possible reasons, I'm asking you about just one in particular.

There might be other reasons, so limiting them to just one when other factors may have more of an influence is pointless.

Other factors may affect whether adding the socket is notifiable - that does not mean that each individual factor cannot be considered.

Not an evasion - just a smple observation of your inability to present a realistic scenario or commit yourself to facts.

In what way is it unrealistic to not consider if the presence of an indoor waterfall is relevant to whether the presence of a shower 200' away makes adding a socket notifiable?

It might be notifiable if there were a bath 6 inches away.

What's the relevance of the 6 inches?

And how would the existence of a bath affect whether the presence of a shower 200' away makes adding a socket notifiable?

It sounds as though you are now getting desperate and that you have finally understood that your 'loaded' scenario is basically gibberish.

I'm not at all desperate - it is not I who is trying to come up with reason after reason after reason not to answer a simple question about one factor which may or may not make an item of work notifiable.

I do, however, despair that you will ever admit that the question is perfectly intelligible and easy to answer.

I said this just about at the outset, yet you immediately embarked on the roundabout of gibberish.

I am not prepared to offer an opinion on a loaded scenario that is gibberish.

But if the question is gibberish, I shan't answer it.

Gibberish. Plain gibberish. It's just gibberish. Or is it mumbo jumbo? No, it's gibberish.

Maybe you think that if you keep on behaving like this then eventually the topic will get locked and you'll get away without having to answer the question.

If that happens, then you may well have succeeded in evading it, but do you really think that most of the people here will have agreed with you that it was so unintelligible that you were quite justified in refusing to answer it, or do you think that they'll see your behaviour as completely uncooperative?

But as you do seem utterly determined, no matter what, to refuse to answer the question, I'll try another one, and with this one, unless you are going to claim that what you wrote was gibberish, or that a very simple single word from me is gibberish, you should be able to understand it.

It is not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

That depends on if the shower tray measures 200' or not.

Why?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It is not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

That depends on if the shower tray measures 200' or not.

Why?

What's the matter FR - not able to explain why you think the size of the shower tray would be relevant?

 

[FingRinal]

It is not relevant to whether the work is notifiable because of the presence of a shower nearly 200' away.

That depends on if the shower tray measures 200' or not.

Why?

What's the matter FR - not able to explain why you think the size of the shower tray would be relevant?

I can see they you are determined. I'm sure the size of bath or shower tray is irrelevant in BAS7671, but it isn't in BS7671.

I'm sure voltage drop over 200' for a socket circuit with BS1363 accessories is irrelevant in BAS7671 but it isn't in BS7671.

I'm sure the plans for your avant-garde shed would not have defined areas specified on them should they be submitted for Building Regs and Planning as you would probably submit them to yourself, consider them yourself and approved them yourself with a nice non-toxic crayon from Crayola. Then you would probably appeal against yourself, convene a court hearing with yourself in a Court of Law in your bedroom with your Jedi figures as jurors, don one of your mum's blonde wigs and make a legal ruling.

Meanwhile...in the real world....

You might prefer BAS7671, I won't have anything to do with such gibberish and mumbo jumbo.

 

[Softus]

I'm sure voltage drop over 200' for a socket circuit with BS1363 accessories is irrelevant in BAS7671 but it isn't in BS7671.

You try so hard to be seen not to make assumptions, and yet you've assumed that the consumer unit is at the shower tray.

It's impossible to take someone seriously when their understanding is so utterly wrong.

You can fool some fools some of the time...Here is one example in which BS7671 becomes the Law... A contract is signed in which 'activity A' will be installated in strict compliance with Regulation x,y,z of BS7671:2008'. That would be called Contract Law.

 

[FingRinal]

I know Softie, which is why you should join BAS in his bedroom. I'm sure the the two of you together in matching jim-jams would be very happy together