Quote But Not a Quote

[topgazza]

My wife's Aunt is 82 and lives near Romford. Visiting her on Boxing Day I was horrified to find the cold tap on her sink dribbles water and her toilet flushes and fills but needs replacing. Both in her bathroom.

I suspect the tap is gunged up.

I could do the work but I live too far away to do the work. I would buy a basic toilet and sink and taps for her and would assume a local plumber would fit in half a day ? Probably allow a day in case of any issues.

I know asking for quotes is a no no but as a guide how much would a good plumber charge and would he prefer to supply the sink and toilet. Its a straight through the wall waste. I'm quite upset at how she has allowed it to go so far and the problem we have is that she is really really proud and difficult to convince to get anything done. That bit I can work on.....

 

[seco services]

i would never quote without seeing the job.
i would prefer to supply the materials and appliances.

if the tap only dribbles why not change the washer etc rather than new taps ?
and why does it need a new toilet is it fills/flushes ?

 

[Agile]

Some of these seemingly easy jobs are disasters!

Suppose the soil pipe was made of cast iron and was cemented into a 9" solid wall and was say 30 mm too high to fit the current models of toilet?

B&Q have their cheap toilets for £49.99 less a further 15% by Monday if you bought something else to make the spend up to ££50.

An honest plumber would probably charge about £230 to fit the new toilet and taps supplied by you. Many like to rip off old ladies though so its best that a younger person deals with the negotiation.

I am so concerned about being accused of that kind of thing that I ask for a younger person if the customer is over 72 or seems a bit daft.

Tony

 

[petetheleak]

I am so concerned about being accused of that kind of thing that I ask for a younger person if the customer is over 72 or seems a bit daft.

You better get more concerned now as the PC brigade will get you for ageism. LOL

 

[seco services]

to be concerned it must of crossed your mind that you have done it before.

 

[topgazza]

You guys are so cruel

The toilet doesn't flush with an "oomph" and struggles to carry away any waste. Its not ancient but looks too old to replace any innards and is a bit grimy. The waste pipe looks plastic but I agree thats its the simple jobs that can go crooked.

Ditto for the taps...washers....well, yes but a spuce up of the sink would look nice next to the new toilet and again, the taps look quite old. I'm paying for the job so I don't mind and would be dealing with the money side of it. I'm used to dealing with tradesmen so thats not a problem.

...I think the "problem" with older people is that they don't always listen...not so much the quote that turns into the national debt because of the odd dodgy plumber and then disagreements rise. Not a bad idea to make sure someone else is aware of whats been quoted.

I would only use a plumber recommended locally or someone here anyway. Appreciate the pointers Agile. That price sounds about right and in line with what I was expecting.

 

[topgazza]

...meant to say that the cold tap on the basin dribbles when open...not closed. No flow of water at all. Water pressure seems OK as bath and cistern both fill OK. I suspect the tap is all gunked up.

 

[bengasman]

Some of these seemingly easy jobs are disasters!

I am so concerned about being accused of that kind of thing that I ask for a younger person if the customer is over 72 or seems a bit daft.

Tony

Due to the OR, that would mean most of my quotes

 

[topgazza]

Which is why the call the "experts" in.

Mmmmm...one side thinks its customers are daft and the other side thinks the tradesmen are ripping them off.....a bit of a communication gap methinks.

The onus is always on the supplier to educate and give clear detailed, unambiguous, quotes...as some do...but of course there is always the customer who despite the best of business processes and quotes still think replacing a tap washer for £20 means replacing the boiler, rads and pipework for the same price.

Trick is...provide that clear detailed quote, turn up on time..don't wander off onto other jobs and don't ask for money until the job is finished. Someone else here said its all about trust...its not...its all about running a business as a business in a professional way and not a hobby where all your customers are your mates. For customers...just bloody listen to what the man is saying....and don't expect extras for free.....and pay up in full when they have delivered what the quote says they will deliver....

I should be an arbitrator as I see both sides....

Anyway...my non flowing tap......

 

[bengasman]

don't ask for money until the job is finished.

???



You have got to be ******* s******g me

No deposit = no booking, let alone me buying over a thousand quid's worth of gear with the risk that you have changed your mind when I show up because you had:

the bill for your holiday,
a better offer,
your wife said she thought it was too much,
the neighbour knows a guy in the pub who has an uncle who has a friend who knows a bloke who is very good and said this brand is poor quality,
the boiler started working again,
brother in law is a builder who says prices will come down,
your boss said they might be laying off people,
you want to think about it some more

 

[topgazza]

As opposed to paying a hefty deposit only for the guy to turn up late by 3 weeks next Thursday then disappear for three days before finally returning and asking for another £500 because theres an "R" in the month...or the guy dumping off some obscure parts and going off to another more profitable job telling you to get someone else in....who then repeats the whole thing.

I jest...



....of course excluding a reasonable deposit. Certainly not more than 20% ?

Of course like any member of the public can...failing to fulfill a contract means you can take them to small claims court. So if they accept the quote and this is where understanding good business practice...and "you" get their signature you can reclaim any reasonable costs if they then say no. Deposit provides some incentive of course but should be fairly levied.

I'm all for paying a fair deposit but how about if 10% of the final bill gets returned for every day the supplier turns up late or disappears for a day because he's double booked ? It has to work both ways doesn't it ? To be fair everyone I have ever employed to do a job has always been on time but there are plenty that don't....which is why booking someone based on reputation and recommendation is key. Sadly the reverse isn't possible for you guys.

But don't get me wrong.....I have complete sympathy with tradesmen and the difficulties they face with some members of the public. Its hard enough as it is without some chancer taking the p**s. Its back to getting that quote spot on and getting that signature...and that deposit....and a baseball bat just in case.....

 

[bengasman]

10% for booking
30% on start
30% when boiler is bought
balance on completion

risk is split evenly, everybody happy.

 

[topgazza]

Thats pretty good. For me I would want a more evenly spread amount..say

10% Booking

10% Start

Pay for all the boiler when bought

Balance on completion

That way "I" haven't paid nearly half the amount before a hacksaw is unsheathed

But in any case your principal is a sound one and if you came recommended I for one wouldn't have a problem with it. Not sure most people appreciate that plumbers etc etc are one or two man small businesses and don't have the huge credit lines that big companies have with merchants.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Thats pretty good. For me I would want a more evenly spread amount..say

10% Booking

10% Start

Pay for all the boiler when bought

Balance on completion

What about a retention - say 5% - to be payable one month after completion, provided nothing has gone wrong in the meantime?

 

[topgazza]

I think it depends on the terms that the supplier requires and then the customer to agree to them. They do need to be balanced and unfortunatley there are lots of stories of tradesmen not returning to rectify faults...very quickly. There certainly seems to be a culture of mistrust on both sides....justified I guess but a lot of it based on anecdotal stories.

I know it takes time but well written quotes are still the key as well as capturing exactly what the customer wants and then agreeing the payment schedule and what constitutes a payment "milestone".

Deposit on booking
X % on start
x% on delivery of boiler
x% on satisfactory completion...and what does "satisfactory" mean. Central heating working with no leaks, TRVs working OK, clean up Ok...whatever is agreed...plus whatever warranty is applicable to the work, how long it is, response times to calls.

You know, detailed stuff. Anything that gives either party no room to quibble. It won't be perfect but the more info written down and agrred the better. As I said..it takes time but it has to be worth it.