Help With Recommendation Codes 1-4

[securespark]

Hi.

Can anybody post a link to a site where I can get guidance on what to grade installation observations as?

Strange as it may seem in 20+ years, but I've done my first Landlord's inspection and I'm stuck as how to grade the faults.

Gems such as:

tails in xs of 2m (more like 12m) without fusing down

same tails chased in the wall at skirting level

but then things like

all sockets (more than 1 circuit0 on one MCB (there are actually 5 conductors in this mcb)

an MEC starting life as 16mm² then blocked to 10mm²

No E link to sockets where conduit is cpc

Busbar shield missing on CU

and can you grade things like

Imperial cable

Old colours?

Thanks

 

[EdwardCurrent]

Hello Secure.
Any help ?
http://esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG4_08.pdf

Regards as always

Ed

 

[ericmark]

Since you are allowed a spur direct into consumer unit see the BS 7671:2008, Corrigendum (July 2008) here not sure if even 5 wires into one MCB is a fault?

As apprentice I was told one hole for one wire but with domestic is seems that is not followed.

but rare can you use Code 1 that is only really for bare cables etc.
Code 3 is where you can't test.
Code 4 is where was OK with 16th (previous) Edition.
So all else must be Code 2 it's only one left.

Can't see why imperial cable would be coded and reading Appendix 7 old colours are not a failure only lack of warning label when both colours are used would need coding.

There are some odd ones I looked at a caravan and the label was not Bi-lingual so should fail but I can't read Welsh anyway so even if there was a Bi-lingual label I couldn't check it was correct!

I do think listing minor faults as code 1 which I have seen many times is counter productive as then the really bad faults are not done straight away. So unless immediate danger it does not get code 1.

 

[securespark]

Thanks both! What about 2 rings into one MCB?

 

[canduit]

Untitled

• canduit
• 24 Nov 2009
• 2

What about 2 rings & 2 spurs into 2 mcb's?

 

[flameport]

Tails - maximum length is a DNO requirement, provided they are sized appropriately for the main fuse and not routed where they are likely to be damaged, no code required.
Tails chased in the wall - code 2

More than 1 circuit in MCB - sounds a bit shoddy, but no code, unless the cables are the wrong size, or they can't be secured in the terminal properly.

Main earth 16/10mm - probably no code, unless the minimum required size is greater than 10mm.

Earth link on sockets - code 2, the earth connection will work via the screws, but they can loosen (or be loosened by naughty tenants).

Busbar shield - no code, can't access it unless the cover is removed.
Old cable sizes and colours - no code, provided they are the correct size for the protective device.

There isn't much which would be a code 1 - that would be things like exposed live parts due to broken accessories, missing CU cover, no earth connection etc.
Most defects will be code 2, should be improved but there is no immediate danger if they are not.
Code 3 should never be used on a domestic - just how much 'further investigation' can there be in a house or flat?
Code 4 is pretty useless as well - unless the installation was done yesterday, there will be many items which did comply but don't any more. Cables buried in walls with no RCD being a common one.

For a full PIR, everything would of course be listed in detail. However for a landlords inspection, the main point will be 'is it safe' rather than 'does this comply with the current edition of BS7671'. There will probably be a long list of items which don't comply with the current regs (code 4s), but there is little point in listing all of these, since they won't be fixed, and the landlord is not likely to read the list either.

 

[ericmark]

I would agree will all flameport has said.
Only code 3 is size of incoming fuse which since sealed you can't inspect but to code 3 that is being rather pedantic.

 

[securespark]

Thanks guys!

I have issued code 3 where I have been unable to trace 2 final circuits.

Tails are buried in plaster outside safe zones: I have coded this 1.

Mixed rings on one MCB I have coded 2 as per the document you linked to.

 

[ricicle]

Tails are buried in plaster outside safe zones: I have coded this 1.

Does it really present immediate danger or require urgent attention ?

 

[Spark123]

The way I think about it is:
Code 1: Presents immediate danger
Code 2: Doesn't currently cause danger but if left could cause danger
Code 3: Outside the scope of the PIR
Code 4: Bits that don't comply with the 17th edn but aren't dangerous

Personally I'd err towards code 1 for the sockets as there isn't a sound earth connection.

 

[GaryMo]

Code 4 is where was OK with 16th (previous) Edition.

That's not what a code 4 is specifically for.
It's for non compliances with BS7671:2008 which don't present a danger.
There's no need to refer to previous editions of BS7671 or the Wiring Regulations.

 

[GaryMo]

all sockets (more than 1 circuit0 on one MCB (there are actually 5 conductors in this mcb)

I know where you're coming from but the fact they all come from the same MCB means they're all one single circuit.
Have a look at the definition of a circuit in part 2.

 

[Spark123]

You could at most class it as an interlinked ring, the ring being interlinked at the MCB, but that is being really pedantic.

 

[Paul_C]

PIR codes are always a contentious issue, with much disgreement between whether something should be code 1 vs. code 2 or code 2 vs. code 4.

Personally, there are many things which I might see which if it were my installation I would regard as needing improvement (code 2), but which are in full compliance with the current edition of BS7671, so shouldn't really be coded at all if you are following the principle that only things which deviate in some way from BS7671 need to be noted (code 3 for further investigation excepted).

I find the RCD issue particularly silly, with claims that non-RCD sockets should now be code 2 or even code 1, when to my mind they should be nothing more than a code 4. I've even seen claims that no sleeving on earths should be code 1!

I'm just waiting for the day now that somebody suggests a code 2 for red/black cable.

 

[Paul_C]

Hello Secure.
Any help ?
http://esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG4_08.pdf

The ESC guide highlights some of the issues which I think are over/underplayed, not to mention that it appears to contradict itself in places.

For example, "Circuits with ineffective overcurrent protection" is listed as code 1, with which I would agree, yet it suggests code 2 for "A 30/32A ring circuit discontinuous or cross-connected with another circuit." What do they think happens to the effectiveness of the overcurrent protection on what is effectively two radial branches when the ring is broken?

In the introductory notes, it says "Only observations that can be supported by one or more regulations in the current issue of BS7671 should be recorded," but then in the section of code 2 suggestions it includes "Immersion heater does not comply with BS EN 60335-2-73 {.....} and the cold water tank is plastic."

It suggests code 1 for "Absence of RCD protection on socket-outlets in bathrooms and shower rooms," but a complete "Absence of earthing at a socket-outlet" is only a code 2.