Blagdon Powersafe Outdoor Wall Socket Kit

[JAmmmmm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GufMHEPOhQ

Looks a right mess I know, especaily the swa bit, and if she'd "drilled" just another 4" right :0

What do we think about part p, it is fixed but is also a plug in kit, on the outside at least?

 

[westie101]

I would suggest that as it is not permanently connected, i.e. hard wired it would comply with the spirit of the regs.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'd say it complies (barely, as it's arguable that the cables and the suggested way to install them don't comply with P1) with the letter of the law, but absolutely not the spirit.

The only thing that makes it non-notifiable is the fact that the connection to the socket plugs in, rather than being connected to screw terminals as is the other end of the cable when the user fits a plug.

Does 3(c) exempt special installations like that from being notifiable? Yes.

Is it likely that that's what was intended? No, IMO. Products like that didn't exist until a cynical triumph of marketing over engineering caused them to come into being.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Did you spot the section (approx 4mins in) saying that the cable can be buried or fixed to a fence......?

 

[EngStudent]

I wonder whether or not they stay within limits for voltage drop when they're daisy-chained? For some reason I doubt it.

I also doubt that she installed them!

 

[ericmark]

The idea of a removable RCD is something I have refereed to in the past. It of course can be removed which means if it was part of a commercial installation it would likely fail the in-service testing and inspecting of electrical equipment due to cable lengths.

However because it is a kit I am sure it complies with Part P.

I have had reports of water ingress into the plugs used. Seems they are not as good as shown.

Blagdon back in 1970's made very good air driven pumps. It seems they then branched into electric pumps for garden ponds and this is an extension of their range designed originally to supply their pumps.

What I see as a grey area is the wiring of the 13A plug? All electrical equipment offered for sale in the UK must have an appropriate plug or adaptor for the UK system pre-wired to the appliance and so not sure if legal to supply the plug lose? I think this falls foul of the "sale and supply of goods act 1994".

I can't see how any kit which requires one to fit the plug can comply with the UK laws?

 

[Paul-man]

What about the way she drilled the hole from the outside-in? I was taught never to do that - far more likely to hit something you don't intend to, even if you take measurements etc.

She also drilled the hole horizontally instead of at an (upwards) angle.

 

[bernardgreen]

They also avoided showing the "ease" at which cable cleats can be attached to a wall and hold the cable in a nice straight tidy line. It takes practise to do that.

 

[londonboy]

It still looks hideous, the socket isn't very pleasant on the eye, unlike the MK (or similar) versions.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[ericmark]

So if one goes to local retailer and asks him to make up a "Kit" of parts you will require to install an outside socket then does that not need Part P?

If the plug was attached then I would agree no Part P. However once you expect the user to attach the plug then I would say no different to any other box of parts and it will require Part P.

Commercial use would still require testing and I have had many an argument over extension leads which are longer than that laid out in old PAT testing book. (i.e. before 2008 when all sockets RCD protected)

With an earth loop impedance at socket of < 1.44 ohms and an earth loop impedance at extension lead socket of < 2.42 assuming 13A fuse that allows the loop resistance of the extension lead < 1 ohm. 2.5mm cable at 0.18 ohms per meter gives max length of 55 meters but reduce it to 1.5 mm as the book says you can't fit 2.5mm into a 13A plug we drop to 34 meters.

However code of practice say:-
"The length of an extension lead for general use should not exceed the following:
core area maximum length
1.25 mm2 12 meters
1.5 mm2 15 meters
2.5 mm2 25 meters*
* 2.5 mm2 cables are too large for standard 13 A plugs, but they may be used with BS EN 60309 industrial plugs."

So airing on safe side. It also states:-
"(5) Some portable appliance testers with go/no-go indication may fail cord connected appliances with earth continuity resistance exceeding 0.1 ohm. If it is not possible to re-programme the appliance tester it will be necessary for a measurement of the actual resistance to be made with another instrument."

My Robin could be programmed but I would guess most of the automatic PAT testers given to semi-skilled guys would not allow this so long leads fail. However most PAT testers also need to be able to get the plug and socket together and this then raises the "Portable" question.

When Plugged in is the item part of installation testing or appliance testing? In this case I would say installation testing. Which would require some device able to measure ELI. Unless the kit has a tester as part of the system then one can't say if it complies or not.

The inclusion of a "Plug-in RCD" does in some way reduce the problems but when I did PAT testing long extension leads needed to have a RCD plug so it could not be removed from the lead. The only exception was where every socket on the site was RCD protected.

I can accept a DIY guy breaking the rules. We all at some time will have exceeded the speed limit. However a manufacturer breaking the rules is something else. It's like your boss telling you that you must break speed limits.

I do not agree with a lot of Part P. I think each electrician should have had a card like with "Gas Safe" and it should have been only applied where someone was being charged for the work done. As with "Gas Safe" if we have the knowledge and equipment there should have been nothing stopping us working in our own home.

Why the Labour government ever thought the LABC inspectors had the required expertise to carry out this work I do not know. As set out it's just a tax. However can't see it being repealed. Lucky I planned all my electrical work in my house before 2004 so does not effect me.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't understand how anyone could class the work shown in the video as not permanent.

It is permanent, but permanence is not a factor when deciding if anything is notifiable.

The cable is fixed, the socket is fixed, the cable goes though a hole in the wall and cannot be removed without dismantling.

Which makes it fixed wiring, and therefore it comes within the scope of Part P.

It does not compy with the regs, cable not suitable and liable to mechanical and rodent damage. Cable extended to shed without consideration of equipotential zones.

Which probably means it contravenes P1.

In other words the regs are irrelevant and do not apply.

If a manufacturer instructs people to commit a criminal offence during the installation of his product then I think it's valid to say that they must be ignored.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

All electrical equipment offered for sale in the UK must have an appropriate plug or adaptor for the UK system pre-wired to the appliance and so not sure if legal to supply the plug lose?

Doesn't that only apply to portable equipment?

 

[ericmark]

"ban-all-sheds" and "holmslaw" have really said it well. How can a manufacturer instruct one to break the law?

I have had this many times. Mainly with imported German equipment. Where it complies with German regulations but not British.

However Blagdon is British. Or are they? Maybe are Blagdon the importers?

I have seen quite a few extra low voltage transformers/Inverters to recharge batteries etc. Where the 9.6 mm from pins to edge of plug is not complied with. There are many other examples where items don't comply. It is normally addressed by Trading Standards. Question is are we really bothered enough to report this to them?

 

[ericmark]

All electrical equipment offered for sale in the UK must have an appropriate plug or adaptor for the UK system pre-wired to the appliance and so not sure if legal to supply the plug lose?

Doesn't that only apply to portable equipment?

You may have a point. As cookers don't come with a plug. So seems they are not breaking the rules?