Confronting racism. BBC report on a very brave lady

[RogueHanger]

And some of my best friends are racists........

Interesting, micilin.
I have, in my life, privately and publicly disassociated myself from racists and criminals, and they've known why.
You can choose your friends, and I do.

What about your employees? Do you sack them if you find out afterwards they are a member of the BNP or racist, or maybe just avail yourself of a bit of constructive dismissal?

At work employees are expected to display the company policy, in deeds, or even in absence of a required action.
e.g the dismissal or disciplinary of employees for failing to act apporiately.
So constructive dismissal is not necessary. As long as company policy is properly communicated to employees, if they fail to carry out perfectly proper and legal practice they are not complying with company policy.
Obviously, there are no thought police, contrary to your earlier claim.
And employees can think what they like, it's their actions, or lack of them that is important.
Edit: Actually, I'll go futher and say if an employee's actions in their pivate life was seen to be in direct contrast to their employer's policies, then dismissal could be approriate.

I have, in my life, privately and publicly disassociated myself from racists and criminals, and they've known why.

Interesting. By "disassociated" meaning gone, distanced, don't talk with them or want to know them. And yet you don't do the same here. (Cough). If I weren't such a gentleman I might accuse you of walking the walk but not talking the talkies...

Do you really need me to provide a definition of disassociation.
Come on, BT, I expect better of you than that.
I used the word disassociate, not distance, myself from racists and criminals.
An example for your perusal, a policeman would disassociate himself from criminals, but he could not distance himself without failing in his duty.

Methinks I know what's coming...

I trust you were not disappointed, but you can't say you didn't deserve it.

 

[Big Tone]

The reason why I didn’t pro-actively support you in a way I may otherwise have done from the start is because when I asked other veterans here whether you had in fact been here before they offered one or two aliases. So, without prejudice, I took that on board before I would come to my own conclusion; what you call not walking the walk etc. and not having a go at racists here. (I am not the sort to warm to someone straight away who comes across like Ian Paisley on speed).

I’ve already said I cannot honestly figure out if you are trolling or not, but I do believe you display obsessive tendencies which go above and beyond that of a simple interest. And if it is more of a passion than an interest, I can think of far better places for you to lobby than waste your time here on this humble forum where no one is representing your passion up the political chain - as much as I’m sure magnates across the U.K are watching us. It just isn’t in the realms of normal behaviour IMO. (No disrespect to DIYnot).

You’re obviously articulate and used to being on forums, and I think you have been here before; but do please tell me if I’m wrong. So my only thought on this, (you), from the very start has been what’s called toxic disinhibition. I’m sure it’s nothing you don’t already know, but I’ll provide a link anyway.

“With respect to bad behavior, users on the Internet can frequently do or say as they wish without fear of any kind of meaningful reprisal. In most Internet forums, the worst kind of punishment one can receive for bad behavior is usually being banned from a particular site. In practice, however, this serves little use; the person involved can usually circumvent the ban by simply registering another username and continuing the same behavior as before. Suler calls this toxic disinhibition”

If you are as squeaky clean as you purport to be, a good egg fighting the cause, why were you banned and why did you re-register? I like honesty btw and I actually put more trust in the Mods and Admin here than I do you. So if you were 'asked to go' there must have been a good reason. In other words, I don't trust you and have seen a side of you which bothers me. But I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

What's worse, I'm starting to look like I've got the same obsessive behaviour as you now.

Time for the epilogue I think..

 

[RogueHanger]

The reason why I didn’t pro-actively support you in a way I may otherwise have done from the start is because when I asked other veterans here whether you had in fact been here before they offered one or two aliases. So, without prejudice, I took that on board before I would come to my own conclusion;

"Without prejudice", wow, that takes the biscuit!
You took on board others' guesswork and rumour rather than respond to my comments per se . Wow, for the poster who constantly claims to respond to the post, not the poster, that's hypochrisy, again.

what you call not walking the walk etc. and not having a go at racists here. (I am not the sort to warm to someone straight away who comes across like Ian Paisley on speed).

Yet you pile straight in, based on others' rumour, against me for criticising racially abusive comments.

I’ve already said I cannot honestly figure out if you are trolling or not, but I do believe you display obsessive tendencies which go above and beyond that of a simple interest.

But repeated racially offensive behaviour is normal and acceptable?
If you think objecting to continual racial slurs is obsessive, what is your opinion of repetitive racial abuse?
Interestingly, also, BT, you associate opposition to abusive behaviour with trolling. Yet you do not associate abusive behaviour with trolling.
It would appear that your perception and opinions are biased. It is obvious in which direction they are biased.

And if it is more of a passion than an interest, I can think of far better places for you to lobby than waste your time here on this humble forum where no one is representing your passion up the political chain - as much as I’m sure magnates across the U.K are watching us. It just isn’t in the realms of normal behaviour IMO. (No disrespect to DIYnot).

I will oppose abuse, of all sorts, wherever and whenever I encounter it.
You, on the other hand, have demonstrated that you support abusive behaviour in public by opposing the opposers, a kind of anti-diss.. stance

You’re obviously articulate and used to being on forums,

As are you articulate, but no I'm not used to being on forums.
You, however use your ability to support abusive behaviour in public.
I use my ability to oppose such behaviour.

and I think you have been here before; but do please tell me if I’m wrong. So my only thought on this, (you), from the very start has been what’s called toxic disinhibition. I’m sure it’s nothing you don’t already know, but I’ll provide a link anyway.

“With respect to bad behavior, users on the Internet can frequently do or say as they wish without fear of any kind of meaningful reprisal. In most Internet forums, the worst kind of punishment one can receive for bad behavior is usually being banned from a particular site. In practice, however, this serves little use; the person involved can usually circumvent the ban by simply registering another username and continuing the same behavior as before. Suler calls this toxic disinhibition”

I have been banned on several occasions for opposing racially abusive comments. Such is the institutionalisation of racism in GD forum on DIYnot.
Thus, toxic disinhibiton is not applicable, I have only been able to continue to oppose abusive behaviour here because each registration has been terminated by DIYnot admin for opposing racial abuse.
Online disinhibition, however, is rampant:

The online disinhibition effect is a loosening (or complete abandonment) of social restrictions and inhibitions that would otherwise be present in normal face-to-face interaction during interactions with others on the Internet. From your souce

My previous usernames, as it appears, you are already aware, and you have previously stated that admin is a personal friend of yours, so your links to owners and admin are becoming clearer, hence your opposition:
RedHerring, RedHerring2, HarengRouge (french for Red Herring of course), possibly HarengRouge2, RogueHanger (anagram of HarengRouge and same initials as RedHerring)

If you are as squeaky clean as you purport to be, a good egg fighting the cause, why were you banned and why did you re-register?

For opposing racial abuse on GD forum.

I like honesty btw and I actually put more trust in the Mods and Admin here than I do you.

Your prejudice is showing again. You've also resorted to ad hominem arguments. Is that because you've run out of weasle excuses for your position on supporting racism?

So if you were 'asked to go' there must have been a good reason.

In DIYnot, opposing racism was as good as a reason as any.

In other words, I don't trust you and have seen a side of you which bothers me. But I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

Ad hominem again, for the reason given above.

What's worse, I'm starting to look like I've got the same obsessive behaviour as you now.

Perhaps you have, but yours is supporting racially abusive behaviour and then being hypochritical trying to deny it.

Time for the epilogue I think..

This post will probably get me banned, yet again. But it will only reinforce my arguments.
Of course, DIYnot could do what they've done before and delete all my posts.
So much for your arguments on free speech, hey?
Free speech for the racists, but not for those that oppose abusive behaviour.

 

[Big Tone]

The reason why I didn’t pro-actively support you in a way I may otherwise have done from the start is because when I asked other veterans here whether you had in fact been here before they offered one or two aliases. So, without prejudice, I took that on board before I would come to my own conclusion;

"Without prejudice", wow, that takes the biscuit!
You took on board others' guesswork and rumour rather than respond to my comments per se . Wow, for the poster who constantly claims to respond to the post, not the poster, that's hypochrisy, again.

Highlights the truth and misses the salient part “...before I would come to my own conclusion”. Typical.

You took on board others' guesswork and rumour rather than respond to my comments per se .

Makes a false claim re. Above, “before I would come to my own conclusion”

Yet you pile straight in, based on others' rumour, against me for criticising racially abusive comments.

Yes “rumour”. Forewarned is forearmed. But see above; and above that. Re. “before I would come to my own conclusion” Am I not saying it right..

But repeated racially offensive behaviour is normal and acceptable?

No! Please tell me exactly where I said or even inferred that? (He wont because there is no such post from me – ever!). Offensive? Yes, to some. Acceptable? No, never. But I live in the real world and, here I go again, my mission is not your mission!

If you think objecting to continual racial slurs is obsessive, what is your opinion of repetitive racial abuse?

You really want to know? I think they’re winding you up because of how you are. As I said, I honestly don’t remember it being a big deal before you came along. To repeat, I disappeared for a long time because of the general slagging-off matches, not because I saw it gorged with racism any more than any other forum I have ever visited. Sorry if you don't believe me.

Interestingly, also, BT, you associate opposition to abusive behaviour with trolling.

No! But even a dog with a bone puts it down once in a while.

It would appear the your perception and opinions are biased. It is obvious in which direction they are biased.

Ok, I see. When you want my opinion you will give it to me. Got it thanks.

I will oppose abuse, of all sorts, wherever and whenever I encounter it. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated that you support abusive behaviour in public by opposing the opposers, a kind of anti-diss.. stance.

Misrepresentation again. Well there you have it, he’s blown my cover. Sorry guys, I’m afraid it’s true, I support abusive behaviour. You heard it here first.

You, however use your ability to support abusive behaviour in public.

I have been banned on several occasions for opposing racially abusive comments. Such is the institutionalisation of racism in GD forum on DIYnot.

Thus, toxic disinhibiton is not applicable, I have only been able to continue to oppose abusive behaviour here because each registration has been terminated by DIYnot admin for opposing racial abuse.

Okay and thank you for being honest. Now I am at least up to speed with the others here. So you are on a mission to eradicate racists and/or racist behaviour on a forum where, by your own admission, there are some but not many, (my words), and you feel it incumbent upon yourself to make a difference. I can respect that. But you are not making a difference IMHO. You are just p1ss1ng people off who will, over time: ignore you, change the ‘channel’, post more abuse, anything you want to call it. So, realistically, what is your ultimate goal Rogue and what do you hope to realistically achieve? I guess there are some things they don’t teach you at Uni

I like honesty btw and I actually put more trust in the Mods and Admin here than I do you.

Your prejudice is showing again. You've also resorted to ad hominem arguments. Is that because you've run out of weasle excuses for your position on supporting racism?

Excuse me if I can’t reply to that one and seem confused. It’s because I am.

I am not a MOD, (stating the obvious I hope), and I don't personally know a single MOD by name).

What's worse, I'm starting to look like I've got the same obsessive behaviour as you now.

Perhaps you have, but yours is supporting racially abusive behaviour and then being hypochritical trying to deny it.

Tip: If one of your objectives is to recruit people to ‘your cause’ you don’t do it by trying to unfairly discredit them. Also, I think you said you’re not especially big on forums. Post’s like yours, and mine, (this one too), just bore the $h1t out of people! Many or most will take one look and think “£cuk it! I’m not reading that load of bo11ock$”. Less is more sometimes

Best wishes

Tony

(That's just my SOH btw; not racism or my support of racists!)

 

[enyam]

I have been banned on several occasions for opposing racially abusive comments. Such is the institutionalisation of racism in GD forum on DIYnot.
Thus, toxic disinhibiton is not applicable, I have only been able to continue to oppose abusive behaviour here because each registration has been terminated by DIYnot admin for opposing racial abuse.

Stop playing the poor put upon,it is the manner in which you try to label everyone that so much as has a different opinion from you.You become abusive that is why you become banned.

 

[enyam]

Here's one for you Red,

Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.

Come this summer England yes England are in Brazil competing in the world cup,guess who I will be shouting at and no doubt throwing a can at the telly when we cock up another penalty shoot out,yes England,I don't give a toss which colour skin the plonkers have as long as they have three lions on their chest and try their damnedest and if this is racist for me to want to do that then so be it.

 

[JBR]

Here's one for you Red,

Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.

Come this summer England yes England are in Brazil competing in the world cup,guess who I will be shouting at and no doubt throwing a can at the telly when we cock up another penalty shoot out,yes England,I don't give a toss which colour skin the plonkers have as long as they have three lions on their chest and try their damnedest and if this is racist for me to want to do that then so be it.

But it's impossible to use the word 'England' or 'English' in a racist context, or 'white' for that matter.

 

[RogueHanger]

Here's one for you Red,

Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.

Come this summer England yes England are in Brazil competing in the world cup,guess who I will be shouting at and no doubt throwing a can at the telly when we cock up another penalty shoot out,yes England,I don't give a toss which colour skin the plonkers have as long as they have three lions on their chest and try their damnedest and if this is racist for me to want to do that then so be it.

You're being ridiculous.
Take the quote in the context in which it was first used, i.e. Cecil Rhodes, who went on to declare independence from South Africa because he wanted, along with his supporters, to keep native Africans subservient to white people, in the belief that white people were superior to black people, and you'll see why it so racially abhorrent.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting your nation's team, and in the process shouting the nation's name, unless and until you use racially abusive slogans against others. That is what Cecil Rhodes original quote was doing.

So your use of Cecil Rhodes quote is as relevant to team support as grass is to the moon.
Now if you can't appreciate the difference, then you need guidance.

 

[RogueHanger]

I have been banned on several occasions for opposing racially abusive comments. Such is the institutionalisation of racism in GD forum on DIYnot.
Thus, toxic disinhibiton is not applicable, I have only been able to continue to oppose abusive behaviour here because each registration has been terminated by DIYnot admin for opposing racial abuse.

Stop playing the poor put upon,it is the manner in which you try to label everyone that so much as has a different opinion from you.You become abusive that is why you become banned.

Precisely, I was banned for retaliating against racially abusive comments.
The original perpetrators of those racially abusive comments were not banned. And the situtaion continues to this day, i.e racially abusive posters are not banned and allowed to continue their racial abuse.
What does that tell you about DIYnot?

 

[RogueHanger]

But it's impossible to use the word 'England' or 'English' in a racist context, or 'white' for that matter.

Well that's wierd because I was accused of being racially abusive when I used a corruption of whitespirit's username.

 

[enyam]

Here's one for you Red,

Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life.

Take the quote in the context in which it was first used, i.e. Cecil Rhodes, who went on to declare independence from South Africa because he wanted, along with his supporters, to keep native Africans subservient to white people, in the belief that white people were superior to black people, and you'll see why it so racially abhorrent.

Of course the native Africans have proved other wise.

If it wasn't for Rhodes just think there wouldn't be a need for Mugabe,remind me how much better it is with him in charge.

I notice they are evacuating holiday makers from Kenya,is it cause they are white.

 

[enyam]

But it's impossible to use the word 'England' or 'English' in a racist context, or 'white' for that matter.

Well that's wierd because I was accused of being racially abusive when I used a corruption of whitespirit's username.

Still stands, you referred to him as whiteshite.You apologised that's like Adams being the IRA apologist,hollow words.

 

[enyam]

But it's impossible to use the word 'England' or 'English' in a racist context, or 'white' for that matter.

Well that's wierd because I was accused of being racially abusive when I used a corruption of whitespirit's username.

Irony is lost on you.

 

[groovynooby]

I have been banned on several occasions for opposing racially abusive comments. Such is the institutionalisation of racism in GD forum on DIYnot.
Thus, toxic disinhibiton is not applicable, I have only been able to continue to oppose abusive behaviour here because each registration has been terminated by DIYnot admin for opposing racial abuse.

Stop playing the poor put upon,it is the manner in which you try to label everyone that so much as has a different opinion from you.You become abusive that is why you become banned.

Precisely, I was banned for retaliating against racially abusive comments.
The original perpetrators of those racially abusive comments were not banned. And the situtaion continues to this day, i.e racially abusive posters are not banned and allowed to continue their racial abuse.
What does that tell you about DIYnot?

Given that you disassociate yourself from racists, seems a strange place to hang out?

 

[RogueHanger]

The reason why I didn’t pro-actively support you in a way I may otherwise have done from the start is because when I asked other veterans here whether you had in fact been here before they offered one or two aliases. So, without prejudice, I took that on board before I would come to my own conclusion;

"Without prejudice", wow, that takes the biscuit!
You took on board others' guesswork and rumour rather than respond to my comments per se . Wow, for the poster who constantly claims to respond to the post, not the poster, that's hypochrisy, again.

Highlights the truth and misses the salient part “...before I would come to my own conclusion”. Typical.

But by your own admission you have been responding to the poster not the posts. In direct contrast to your claim. What is more, you based your judgement on other's guesswork, not my comments.

You took on board others' guesswork and rumour rather than respond to my comments per se .

Makes a false claim re. Above, “before I would come to my own conclusion”

Based on other's guesswok not my comments.

Yet you pile straight in, based on others' rumour, against me for criticising racially abusive comments.

Yes “rumour”. Forewarned is forearmed. But see above; and above that. Re. “before I would come to my own conclusion” Am I not saying it right..

No you're not saying it right. You claim to abhorr racism yet you have failed time and time again to criticise abusive comments, yet you have spent an enomous amount of time criticising me for objecting to abusive comments

But repeated racially offensive behaviour is normal and acceptable?

No! Please tell me exactly where I said or even inferred that? (He wont because there is no such post from me – ever!). Offensive? Yes, to some. Acceptable? No, never. But I live in the real world and, here I go again, my mission is not your mission!

You have numerous times thanked a poster for their abusive comments and made abusive comments yourself.

If you think objecting to continual racial slurs is obsessive, what is your opinion of repetitive racial abuse?

You really want to know? I think they’re winding you up because of how you are. As I said, I honestly don’t remember it being a big deal before you came along. To repeat, I disappeared for a long time because of the general slagging-off matches, not because I saw it gorged with racism any more than any other forum I have ever visited. Sorry if you don't believe me.

Perhaps you just failed conveniently to see what was obvious?
Additionally, you have now realised that you have spent so much time opposing my view, i.e. that racially abusive behaviour is not acceptable.

Interestingly, also, BT, you associate opposition to abusive behaviour with trolling.

No! But even a dog with a bone puts it down once in a while.

You won't put down your opposition to my view that abusive behaviour in public is not acceptable. Is that not obsessive?

It would appear the your perception and opinions are biased. It is obvious in which direction they are biased.

Ok, I see. When you want my opinion you will give it to me. Got it thanks.

You ought to be able to tell the difference between my observation of your apparent behaviour and attitude fom your opinion.

I will oppose abuse, of all sorts, wherever and whenever I encounter it. You, on the other hand, have demonstrated that you support abusive behaviour in public by opposing the opposers, a kind of anti-diss.. stance.

Misrepresentation again. Well there you have it, he’s blown my cover. Sorry guys, I’m afraid it’s true, I support abusive behaviour. You heard it here first.

Well you've never opposed it.

You, however use your ability to support abusive behaviour in public.

Are you reduced to pictures now in an attempt to rescue your credibility?

I have been banned on several occasions for opposing racially abusive comments. Such is the institutionalisation of racism in GD forum on DIYnot.

Thus, toxic disinhibiton is not applicable, I have only been able to continue to oppose abusive behaviour here because each registration has been terminated by DIYnot admin for opposing racial abuse.

Okay and thank you for being honest. Now I am at least up to speed with the others here. So you are on a mission to eradicate racists and/or racist behaviour on a forum where, by your own admission, there are some but not many, (my words), and you feel it incumbent upon yourself to make a difference. I can respect that. But you are not making a difference IMHO. You are just p1ss1ng people off who will, over time: ignore you, change the ‘channel’, post more abuse, anything you want to call it.

The alternative is to allow abusive posters to continue to ferment their vile opinions on an otherwise useful site. Sadly, due to that offensive behaviour dsiplayed by the minority, the site and its content become an all-white club. Is that the objective of DIYnot? I think not, and if it were they ought to, in all decency, state that as a warning to all.

[ So, realistically, what is your ultimate goal Rogue and what do you hope to realistically achieve?

Simple, the eradication of abusive behaviour in public. I accept that it is an idealistic goal, but there's not much point in aiming for the sky if you want to reach the moon.
What is your ultimate goal in objecting to my criticism of abusive behaviour?

I guess there are some things they don’t teach you at Uni

A completely irrelevant comment. Why?

like honesty btw and I actually put more trust in the Mods and Admin here than I do you.

Your prejudice is showing again. You've also resorted to ad hominem arguments. Is that because you've run out of weasle excuses for your position on supporting racism?

Excuse me if I can’t reply to that one and seem confused. It’s because I am. I am not a MOD, (stating the obvious I hope), and I don't personally know a single MOD by name).

The reason why you appear to be confused is because you've chopped the original comments beyond recognition. I'll reproduce the original for you below:

and I think you have been here before; but do please tell me if I’m wrong. So my only thought on this, (you), from the very start has been what’s called toxic disinhibition. I’m sure it’s nothing you don’t already know, but I’ll provide a link anyway.

“With respect to bad behavior, users on the Internet can frequently do or say as they wish without fear of any kind of meaningful reprisal. In most Internet forums, the worst kind of punishment one can receive for bad behavior is usually being banned from a particular site. In practice, however, this serves little use; the person involved can usually circumvent the ban by simply registering another username and continuing the same behavior as before. Suler calls this toxic disinhibition”

I have been banned on several occasions for opposing racially abusive comments. Such is the institutionalisation of racism in GD forum on DIYnot.
Thus, toxic disinhibiton is not applicable, I have only been able to continue to oppose abusive behaviour here because each registration has been terminated by DIYnot admin for opposing racial abuse.
Online disinhibition, however, is rampant:

The online disinhibition effect is a loosening (or complete abandonment) of social restrictions and inhibitions that would otherwise be present in normal face-to-face interaction during interactions with others on the Internet. From your souce

My previous usernames, as it appears, you are already aware, and you have previously stated that admin is a personal friend of yours, so your links to owners and admin are becoming clearer, hence your opposition:
RedHerring, RedHerring2, HarengRouge (french for Red Herring of course), possibly HarengRouge2, RogueHanger (anagram of HarengRouge and same initials as RedHerring)

If you are as squeaky clean as you purport to be, a good egg fighting the cause, why were you banned and why did you re-register?

For opposing racial abuse on GD forum.

I like honesty btw and I actually put more trust in the Mods and Admin here than I do you.

Your prejudice is showing again. You've also resorted to ad hominem arguments. Is that because you've run out of weasle excuses for your position on supporting racism?

Does that illustrate my comments better, rather than your chopped quote?

Tip: If one of your objectives is to recruit people to ‘your cause’ you don’t do it by trying to unfairly discredit them.

I'm not out to recruit anyone, but when someone publicly denounces racism, then acts as though they are supporting it, I do ask why?
So why are you so dead set against my criticism of abusive behaviour?

Also, I think you said you’re not especially big on forums. Post’s like yours, and mine, (this one too), just bore the $h1t out of people! Many or most will take one look and think “£cuk it! I’m not reading that load of bo11ock$”. Less is more sometimes

Is that your intention to bore people? So they lose interest in your ambiguous stance neither for or against abusive behaviour?