Final Message

[noseall]

How true,,, I went to Cairo some years back. Apart from the touristy bits, the rest of it is a festering stinky hole. Honestly, you wouldn't believe it. (mind you 90+% of the wealth is owned by less than 5% of the population)

How true. Every nation has its $h1t holes. Funny how the RWR seem to highlight one particular group. No change here.

 

[noseall]

If you look beyond the glitz of the UAE you will find some squalid dumps where locals live, the accommodation for the Indian labour force is even worse..

You could be talking about a few dozen different countries here, using the same words. Funny how you and your chums seek out one particular group. No change here.

 

[noseall]

It seems to be the aspiration of all Arabs to be businessmen rather than engineers or builders and as such they see manual labour or anyone technical as being beneath them.

If you look beyond the glitz of the UAE you will find some squalid dumps where locals live, the accommodation for the Indian labour force is even worse..

It seems to be the aspiration of all Jews to be businessmen rather than engineers or builders and as such they see manual labour or anyone technical as being beneath them.

If you look beyond the glitz of Israel you will find some squalid dumps where locals live, the accommodation for the foreign labour force is even worse..

I don't see any difference in the two paragraphs above. Would you mind showing all of us the difference please, with some facts? Don't forget, we ALL have access to Google boyo.

 

[Fire and Ice]

I don't see any difference in the two paragraphs above. Would you mind showing all of us the difference please, with some facts? Don't forget, we ALL have access to Google boyo.

You don't? OK then.

Since you have Google, then you can do your own research and come to whatever conclusion you like.

This is an internet forum, whatever is said here really doesn't matter on a global scale so no need for you to get so angry, if it makes you feel better, then you win the discussion.

 

[noseall]

This is an internet forum.

Correct.
Whilst I stand for neither the Jews or the Arabs, I do like to see parity and the truth. Cherry picking bits of information to suit an agenda is always likely to be contentious. I'm just surprised you picked something so vulnerable and fragile, as far a decent argument is concerned.

If you were wondering - this is where you slipped up......

Ancient history of who did what to who and why in the area of where modern Israel is put aside. If you look at what the Israelis have done with their small patch of land in a few short years and then look at what the Arabs have done with theirs over thousands of years, it does make you wonder

 

[Fire and Ice]

Not really, I just didn't want to be responsible for you having a stroke, like some others here, you seem to be a very angry person who has to win in his own mind..

I on the other hand was one of those who built parts of Dubai and Abu Dhabi, I speak, or rather can make my self understood in Arabic, have read the Koran... But clearly your Google is better, as I said, your cleverer

Do you feel better now?

 

[Fire and Ice]

Go visit Israel... It is fascinating how they do things, they have some very clever engineers.. And builders

 

[Himaginn]

You haven't as yet but JohnD has been pretty offensive to me, almost to the point where I have felt the need to report him to the moderators.

even though I have been polite and courteous to you all?....Who are you to tell me what I can and can't do?

the only one using offensive language is you

I'm quite new here but am quite bemused by the attitude of some of you

you do have quite an aggressive attitude

there seems to be a small number of members here who who try to bully and strong arm the other posters

so no need for you to get so angry,

like some others here, you seem to be a very angry person who has to win in his own mind..

It seems like anyone who disagrees with you is offensive, angry or aggressive.
Maybe we don't suffer fools gladly.

 

[Himaginn]

Without that oil, yes the UAE would be as awful as most other Arab nations.

Funny, only 3.5 million tourists to Israel.
14.7 million tourists to Egypt alone.
Then there's Tunisia, Morocco, Turkey, not to mention the other 18 countries in the Arab League, the 10 counties in Africa, and the 12 countries in Asia.

It's so bad everyone want's to go there.

 

[Himaginn]

I wonder which European builder built this? (Constantine Bridge Algeria.)

 

[Himaginn]

I think, again, WWT, you're not entirely accurate. As I recall (from research, not being there. ) the British set limitation on Jewish immigrants by only allowing in immigrants with £1,000 (I think £1,000 then was somewhere near £50,000 now).This was later lowered to £500,or it may have been t'other way round.
However once the Arabs objected, an annual limit was applied, except that the British allowed something called "The Jewish Agency" to issue immigration visas and that organisation totally disregarded the annual limit.
Land was bought by the Jews under the auspices of "The Jewish Land Fund" or something like that.

However, there was still far more illegal immigration going on.
But even then, at partition, there were 30% Jews who owned only 3% of land.
Under the partition, they were awarded 55% of the Palestinian land.

So going back to the original comment by Vinty, and as you've said the two are not comparable, the indigenous people were not overwhelmed by immigrants. It was the partition that created tension and conflict.

As I said, you interpret overwhelmed to imply numerically overwhelmed, whereas it could just as well mean overwhelmed as in defeated. Actually the Arabs were never agreed to partition, and so when the British left, war broke out, and the Jews overwhelmed the Arabs. Part of that was the massacre of some Arab villages by Jewish terrorists, and the subsequent deliberate spreading of the news, and rumours, by the Jews, to encourage a mass exodus of unarmed Arab civilians. Hence many Arabs simply fled in fear.

As to Jewish immigration, this link kind of confirms what I can recall from a couple of history books I read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah#Second_Aliyah_.281904.E2.80.931914.29

Pre 1930 Britain was favourable to Jewish immigration, whereas in later years they tried harder to restrict it. Early on the Jews bought land legally - although it is questionable whether buying land in a country that is occupied is legal - and established Jewish towns and villages. The figure you gave of about 30% Jews at partition is about right:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine

When discussing Israel I think we always have to remember that there are two peoples who suffered catastrophes, and Israel will never go away, so a pragamatic approach is needed. In my view anyway. Sadly I feel that the US does not help matters. And nor do the Arab states.

And sadly as the decades have passed, so Gaza has turned into a festering sewer with a huge young militant population who hate Jews, not entirely unsurprising really.

I don't think we're far away from agreeing.
You're certainly accurate in saying the Israelis overwhelmed the united Arab armies ranged against them. Quite a feat for such a young nation in the making.
I agree that they also went on to commit "war crimes".
However Vinty's original contention was: "It happened in Palestine, millions of European migrants overwhelmed the indigenous people and the result has been anarchy." Which I disagreed with. It wasn't the immigration that overwhelmed the indigenous population but military superiority.
So the only point that I would still take issue with is your suggestion that the British allowed mass immigration or were favourable towards it. From your link referring to Aliyah:

1919-1923...Third Aliyah....In spite of immigration quotas established by the British administration, the Jewish population reached 90,000 by the end of this period.
1924-1929 Fourth Aliyah ..82,000 arrived.
1929-1933 Fifth Aliyah....increasing restrictions on immigration by the British made immigration clandestine and illegal,
1933 -1948...... The British government limited Jewish immigration to Mandatory Palestine with quotas........Despite British efforts to curb the illegal immigration,...

Quite clearly, the British did not simply allow unrestricted immigration neither were they favourable to immigration.. Perhaps things haven't changed too much and their efforts were poorly instigated.

 

[Deleted member 63160]

Without that oil, yes the UAE would be as awful as most other Arab nations.

Funny, only 3.5 million tourists to Israel.
14.7 million tourists to Egypt alone.
Then there's Tunisia, Morocco, Turkey, not to mention the other 18 countries in the Arab League, the 10 counties in Africa, and the 12 countries in Asia.

It's so bad everyone want's to go there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-35342281

 

[Himaginn]

Without that oil, yes the UAE would be as awful as most other Arab nations.

Funny, only 3.5 million tourists to Israel.
14.7 million tourists to Egypt alone.
Then there's Tunisia, Morocco, Turkey, not to mention the other 18 countries in the Arab League, the 10 counties in Africa, and the 12 countries in Asia.

It's so bad everyone want's to go there.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-35342281

The latest Gaza violence has devastated Israel's tourism industry.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aels-tourism-devastated-by-Gaza-conflict.html

 

[Fire and Ice]

It seems like anyone who disagrees with you is offensive, angry or aggressive.
Maybe we don't suffer fools gladly.

Or maybe some of you are offensive, angry aggressive bullies.. The start of this post seems to be from a guy who is fed up with you... Such a happy forum.

 

[JohnD]

I keep wondering what attracted you to this forum, and the GD section in particular, when you joined it only a few days ago. Sadly you don't seem to like it. You seem especially drawn to the Immigration threads, which are somewhat unsuitable for anyone of a sensitive disposition.

Was it random, or did someone tell you about it?