In or out

[Fire and Ice]

Free Trade - yes, but the cutural differences across Europe are too wide to make the project work.

Just to highlight this, please consider the misery that the EU has brought upon Greece. Granted it could be argued that the Greeks are lazy and feckless but that is the way that they live their lives, they have been happy that way and have given us many happy holidays. The EU knew that Greece had cooked their books to join the EU and didn't care (Please remember that the accounts for the EU itself have not been signed off for many years, 18 I believe) The conditions for all this lovely cheap EU money to Greece was that they should change their entire way of life and become more like the Germans....Did anyone really believe that this was going to happen, Really?

 

[Fire and Ice]

The strengths of Europe do not lie in the EU but in the wonderful diversity of culture and creativity that come from nation states that trade together freely without hindrance of the nanny superstate..

 

[JohnD]

the wonderful diversity of culture and creativity that come from nation states that trade together freely without hindrance of the nanny superstate

Yes, that worked well, didn't it?

View media item 3017
What do you think led the men who strove to create a European community?

hint: the younger men had just lived through the worst war the world had ever seen. The older men had lived through the two worst wars the world had ever seen. The majority of them had fought and seen their comrades and enemies die horribly, and lost friends, families or homes. Some of them had been refugees or imprisoned and been lucky enough to survive. Almost none would have been untouched by the suffering and tragedies of war.

 

[Gerrydelasel]

Urg, I hate culture diversity. Quit the EU!

 

[Himaginn]

Granted it could be argued that the Greeks are lazy and feckless but that is the way that they live their lives, ...

You're incapable of making a comment about anything without making a derogatory, racist remark about other nationalities.

We know from past experience what F&I tactics are:

Of course those who are nurturing such stereotypes are little interested in the nuances or the historical trajectories of either Greece or Germany. They are concerned with a much more immediate agenda; that is the obsequious and unqualified defence of power. Their methods are nothing new – it is merely the old 'divide and rule'...........

http://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/15547-the-greek-paradox

 

[JohnD]

Do we really need to spend ...

I notice Fire circulates false and well-known discredited figures, perhaps he got them from Mr Farrage.

https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887

 

[tony1851]

the wonderful diversity of culture and creativity that come from nation states that trade together freely without hindrance of the nanny superstate

Yes, that worked well, didn't it?

View media item 3017
What do you think led the men who strove to create a European community?

hint: the younger men had just lived through the worst war the world had ever seen. The older men had lived through the two worst wars the world had ever seen. The majority of them had fought and seen their comrades and enemies die horribly, and lost friends, families or homes. Some of them had been refugees or imprisoned and been lucky enough to survive. Almost none would have been untouched by the suffering and tragedies of war.

Another fallacy about peace in Europe.

The peace has been kept by NATO and the perceived threat from the former USSR, not the EEC/EU.

 

[JohnD]

France and Germany habitually go to war once in every generation. As was intended, they have not had one since they started formal co-operation. Europe was littered with military alliances and commitments before all the earlier wars. They didn't work.

NATO was designed to combat the Soviet Union, and has now been wound down. We may need to rebuild something now that Mr Putin is recreating a Russian Empire.

 

[tony1851]

France and Germany habitually go to war once in every generation.

Q: Why are the boulevards of Paris lined with trees?

A. So that the German armies can march in the shade.


(joking apart, I agree with your last sentence, though I fear it may be too late).

 

[Fire and Ice]

the wonderful diversity of culture and creativity that come from nation states that trade together freely without hindrance of the nanny superstate

Yes, that worked well, didn't it?

View media item 3017
What do you think led the men who strove to create a European community?

hint: the younger men had just lived through the worst war the world had ever seen. The older men had lived through the two worst wars the world had ever seen. The majority of them had fought and seen their comrades and enemies die horribly, and lost friends, families or homes. Some of them had been refugees or imprisoned and been lucky enough to survive. Almost none would have been untouched by the suffering and tragedies of war.

So dividing the main protagonist into four and stationing armies of occupation for decades had nothing to do with it? The Common Market as it was, was established to promote trade throughout member states, most definitely not security, so it would be good if you didn't try to build your untruths on the backs of those people who died in the two wars. It is undignified and embarrasses you

 

[Fire and Ice]

Do we really need to spend ...

I notice Fire circulates false and well-known discredited figures, perhaps he got them from Mr Farrage.

https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887

Oh my! The world according to Nick Clegg....Whatever happened to him? Where is he now?

 

[JohnD]

armies of occupation

you mean in the way that the Occupation of the Rhineland prevented WW2 from happening?

untruths

I am sure you have taken enough of an interest in the birth of a united Europe to know how desperate were those leaders and citizens who had lived through terrible European wars to try to make a recurrence impossible.

For the ignorant, a brief summary is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community

 

[Fire and Ice]

Granted it could be argued that the Greeks are lazy and feckless but that is the way that they live their lives, ...

You're incapable of making a comment about anything without making a derogatory, racist remark about other nationalities.

We know from past experience what F&I tactics are:

Of course those who are nurturing such stereotypes are little interested in the nuances or the historical trajectories of either Greece or Germany. They are concerned with a much more immediate agenda; that is the obsequious and unqualified defence of power. Their methods are nothing new – it is merely the old 'divide and rule'...........

http://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/15547-the-greek-paradox

If there are any Greeks here who would like to counter my comments, then please state your case here and I shall read with interest.... Of course, I could be of Greek decent which would make you appear rather silly

 

[JohnD]

would you be the first person to despise his origins?

 

[Fire and Ice]

you mean in the way that the Occupation of the Rhineland prevented WW2 from happening?

I am sure you have taken enough of an interest in the birth of the European Union to know how desperate were those leaders who had lived through terrible European wars to try to make a recurrence impossible.

For the ignorant, a brief summary is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community

You are confused, the Occupation of the Rhineland occurred following the end of the first word war, not the second.. The allies of the First World war actually promoted the second world war by the use of crippling reparations, making life for ordinary Germans intolerable and thus making the conditions for the rise of the Nazi Party favourable... Today the lives or ordinary European citizens are being made intolerable yet again, thus promoting the rise of far right parties in all EU member states