In or out

[JohnD]

certainly a few years ago the EU bureaucrats were talking about establishing rules for if a member country did ever want to leave.

Have you checked if the ideas you mention are vague gossip, or if they were accepted by the elected members and the representatives of the countries' governments?

 

[Fire and Ice]

You're incapable of making a comment about anything without making a derogatory, racist remark about other nationalities.

In this case I think you are being unfair. It is a widely held perception. See below.

Granted it could be argued that the Greeks are lazy and feckless but that is the way that they live their lives,

Greeks work pretty hard. Unfortunately they often fiddled their taxes, and many retired early on generous pensions. That was the cause of their problems, rather than being lazy and feckless.

The EU knew that Greece had cooked their books to join the EU and didn't care

That is an important point, the EU bureacrats should have known but they pushed through Greek membership, for reasons that we can but speculate on. It was irresponsible, and the Greeks deserve some sympathy.

Crikey!!
Truth is I have masses of sympathy for the Greek people. And yes they do work hard and dodge their taxes...I really can't blame them for that, it is money that they have worked for. Until they joined the EU they muddled through, living their lives as they do but the EU has disrupted their entire way of life and I would not have been more pleased if they had ditched the Euro, gone bust and started again... They have done it before with no long lasting effect.

 

[Fire and Ice]

certainly a few years ago the EU bureaucrats were talking about establishing rules for if a member country did ever want to leave.

Have you checked if the ideas you mention are vague gossip, or if they were accepted by the elected members and the representatives of the countries' governments?

Who are the elected members and what actual power do they have?

 

[PBC_1966]

I'm often amused by anti-Europeans who appear to believe (or to want other ignorant folk to believe) that European laws are made by a bunch of alien goblins, and not by elected representatives from the member countries (of which the UK is one of the largest) and delegates from their governments.

Is it not the case that the people who draft proposed EU Directives are not the actual elected representatives, and that the elected representatives from each country are not allowed to propose alterations, only vote for or against?

Surprising as it may seem to some, we do trade with the wider world as well as the EU, and we still have to acommodate regulatory requirements of the US/Canada, Japan, Australia etc - and that doesnt seem to cause many problems.

And the problem there is that membership of the EU hinders trade with those non-EU countries, because the U.K. is bound by EU Directives, common tariffs, and all the other regulatory red-tape of the EU even when trading with somewhere outside the EU.

If, for example, the U.K. wanted to do a deal with the U.S.A. to allow duty-free import of American-made widgets in return for the U.S. allowing duty-free import of British-made watcha-ma-call-its, it would be prevented from doing so by EU rules which dictate common import tariffs for anything coming into any EU country from the U.S.A.

Free Trade - yes, but the cutural differences across Europe are too wide to make the project work.

The EU always makes a huge fuss about free trade, the free market, etc. In reality the EU is not about a free market at all - It's about the creation of an highly regulated, tightly controlled market.

 

[JohnD]

I am aware that much-reduced forces remain in Germany. I am also aware that there are US forces in the UK. I am not aware that either of them are armies of occupation. Particularly since in the 1991 "final" treaty the occupying powers (including the Soviet Union) gave up their remaining rights, and Allied forces remained in Berlin at the request of the German government until the Soviet forces left. What leads you to describe them as armies of occupation?

 

[Fire and Ice]

I am aware that much-reduced forces remain in Germany. I am also aware that there are US forces in the UK. I am not aware that either of them are armies of occupation. Particularly since in the 1991 "final" treaty the occupying powers (including the Soviet Union) gave up their remaining rights, and Allied forces remained in Berlin at the request of the German government until the Soviet forces left. What leads you to describe them as armies of occupation?

But John, you are dodging my question asking what are the benefits of the EU

 

[JohnD]

do you mean you just made it up with no substantiation?

 

[Fire and Ice]

Free Trade - yes, but the cutural differences across Europe are too wide to make the project work.

The EU always makes a huge fuss about free trade, the free market, etc. In reality the EU is not about a free market at all - It's about the creation of an highly regulated, tightly controlled market.[/QUOTE]

Who said Soviet Union?... Did I say Soviet Union? Did you say Soviet Union? No Sir.... Never the Soviet Union....Never!... Well just a little bit.

 

[Fire and Ice]

do you mean you just made it up with no substantiation?

Why would I want to make up the benefits of the EU?

Fact is the US and Brits fought their way into Germany during the war and are still there, dress it up with whatever agreement you like, they are still armies of occupation..

 

[JohnD]

Not once a peace treaty has been signed and the country has become a sovereign nation again.

So it appears you are deliberately using a falsehood.

 

[Fire and Ice]

Who said Soviet Union?... Did I say Soviet Union? Did you say Soviet Union? No Sir.... Never the Soviet Union....Never!... Well just a little bit.

I feel however that there are those here who like to give the impression of being of the people but are secretly pulling levers and delete buttons in the background..

 

[JohnD]

You'd better stop doing it, then.

 

[Fire and Ice]

Not once a peace treaty has been signed and the country has become a sovereign nation again.

So it appears you are deliberately using a falsehood.

So you are saying that Germany can tell the US and UK to leave at any time?

 

[Fire and Ice]

You'd better stop doing it, then.

Doing what?

 

[PBC_1966]

I notice Fire circulates false and well-known discredited figures, perhaps he got them from Mr Farrage.

https://fullfact.org/economy/cost_eu_membership_gross_net_contribution-30887

So according to that article, the U.K.'s net contribution is "only" £33 million per day. That doesn't really alter the basic premise that the U.K. is paying vast amounts of money into this "club," and for what?

Even if the net contribution were "only" £1 million per day, just think how that money could be spent: Improvements to schools and hospitals, fixing Britain's crumbling roads and water distribution systems, etc. Neither should regulatory costs be neglected in the assessment of how much membership costs as a whole - Accounting red-tape, costs of complying with laws which have been passed only because of EU Directives, and so on.

And what about those payments that the EU makes to the U.K? Don't forget that those payments come with conditions attached as to how the money may be spent, and in the case of many projects, just to add insult to injury, with requirements about how it must be made perfectly clear that funding for the project was "generously" provided by the EU.

If anyone here would like to send me £1000, I'll willingly send £400 by return and tell you how you may spend it. And please remember to tell everyone what a great deal I did for you!