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It does not matter who is saying it, it is what is said that counts or not said in the case of David Cameron.
I watched him this evening on the BBC, did you?
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- Thread starter gasbanni
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It does not matter who is saying it, it is what is said that counts or not said in the case of David Cameron.
I watched him this evening on the BBC, did you?
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When DC is asked a question he cannot or does not want to answer he just goes into his much repeated ‘Britain is better off in’ mantra.
When asked about immigration being out of control he said that Australia used a points based system and they are allowing more immigrants per population than we are.
This country is not as large as Australia and we cannot cope with unlimited immigration. Most countries in the free world have the right to control their immigration levels, even a massive country like Australia with a population of less than half that of the UK. Our population density/Km2 is 269 while theirs is only three.
When it was Michael Gove’s turn last time, I thought he won the crowd over with his more reasoned arguments.
When asked about immigration being out of control he said that Australia used a points based system and they are allowing more immigrants per population than we are.
This country is not as large as Australia and we cannot cope with unlimited immigration. Most countries in the free world have the right to control their immigration levels, even a massive country like Australia with a population of less than half that of the UK. Our population density/Km2 is 269 while theirs is only three.
When it was Michael Gove’s turn last time, I thought he won the crowd over with his more reasoned arguments.
When Farage is asked a question he sidesteps and turns on his barrage of slogans. He is currently braying about his latest poster showing an orderly queue of refugees from a war outside Europe. He pretends not to know the difference between a war refugee and a migrant. Not a single white face on his poster. He knows how to appeal to his core supporters.
Vote Leave says it would introduce an Australian points system to cut net migration to the tens of thousands. But it also says it wants more migrants from outside the EU. Given that net migration from outside the EU is already 188,000, how would it square this circle?
Vote Leave says it would introduce an Australian points system to cut net migration to the tens of thousands. But it also says it wants more migrants from outside the EU. Given that net migration from outside the EU is already 188,000, how would it square this circle?
It helps to note 50% of them are students who don't count, because they pay to be here and don't stay long term.
188,000 - 50% = 94000 = tens of thousands.
But I wasn't aware that 'tens of thousands' is Vote Leave's official position? Wasn't it only Gove who used that figure after being led to it by an interviewer? (A figure borrowed from Cameron who made the proposition in the first place). Don't get too het up about specific numbers; trends and averages are what count.
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"Myth: An “Australian system” could bring migration down to the tens of thousands
InFact: Net migration from outside the EU is already 188,000. This is just one of six reasons why Vote Leave is misleading voters by saying it would cut net migration to tens of thousands.
More information
Michael Gove has repeated David Cameron’s goal of cutting net migration to tens of thousands of people a year. And, like the prime minister, Vote Leave’s campaign chair is promising things he cannot deliver.
Gove told Robert Peston on ITV: “We would, in due course, bring it [net migration] down to the tens of thousands” – though, like Cameron, he left himself some wiggle room by adding “I wouldn’t set a time limit for it”.
If Vote Leave sticks to its “Australian-style” migration policy, net migration is unlikely to fall much from the 333,000 it hit last year. Here’s why:
http://infacts.org/mythbusts/leave-camps-australian-system-wont-hit-migration-target/
InFact: Net migration from outside the EU is already 188,000. This is just one of six reasons why Vote Leave is misleading voters by saying it would cut net migration to tens of thousands.
More information
Michael Gove has repeated David Cameron’s goal of cutting net migration to tens of thousands of people a year. And, like the prime minister, Vote Leave’s campaign chair is promising things he cannot deliver.
Gove told Robert Peston on ITV: “We would, in due course, bring it [net migration] down to the tens of thousands” – though, like Cameron, he left himself some wiggle room by adding “I wouldn’t set a time limit for it”.
If Vote Leave sticks to its “Australian-style” migration policy, net migration is unlikely to fall much from the 333,000 it hit last year. Here’s why:
- Net migration from outside the EU is already 188,000.
- Vote Leave says it wants more migrants from outside the EU and the system for admitting them will be “much less bureaucratic and much simpler than the existing system”. So the base number has to be north of 188,000.
- Vote Leave also says it wants EU migration to be managed on the same basis as non-EU migration. That means it won’t fall to zero.
- If we make it illegal for many EU migrants to come here, some will still come illegally. They won’t pay taxes, as they do now. They will work in the black market, undercutting our workers’ wages.
- It will be easy for illegal EU migrants to come because Vote Leave also says it won’t introduce border controls between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. So EU citizens will be free to travel to Ireland and then cross to Northern Ireland, before hopping over to Britain. Even if we find and deport illegal migrants (which is not easy), they will be able to take the next Ryanair to Dublin and return to the UK without us having any way to spot them.
- If we stop the free movement of EU citizens to the UK, the rest of the EU will stop free movement by Brits to the Continent. So the outflow of UK citizens will fall.
http://infacts.org/mythbusts/leave-camps-australian-system-wont-hit-migration-target/
I'm intrigued by this latest addition to the scares.
How do they get to GB from NI? The same way as from Eire to GB?
Will we stop the virtually free travel of Irish Republic people that has (always) been the case?
Do you think it would be difficult to distinguish Irish people and the rest of the EU citizens - no matter how well either of them speak English?
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I would like to know how many of these free moving Brits on or going to the continent are retired and receiving their pensions & winter fuel payments from this country.
I am guessing that Spain and Portugal would be very sorry to see them leave or no longer be allowed to live there.
What makes you think it is new?
At the moment there is no border control between Scotland and England, or Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is an EU country and has no plans to leave. Scotland is a UK nation and has no immediate plans to leave. Northern Ireland is a part of the UK.
If you want to introduce border controls, no doubt you can. However "Leave" says they won't.
If there is no border control between the Republic of Ireland and the UK, there is no border control between EU and UK.
If you want "control" over movement between UK and EU, you have to have "controls" so you don't have free movement. You may at your discretion allow certain people in but it is controlled and not free.
Is there some part of that you think is a mistake, or is new?
I am not a part of the Leave campaign so it isn't my responsibility to write their manifesto and explain how it would work. It is the Leave campaigns responsibility, but they haven't done it either.
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...because I have only heard it mentioned recently by the remainers - Cameron.
Yes, I know that but there has always been minimal control between Britain and Eire.
Are they saying Irish people would be treated as aliens should the leave campaign win?
It's not up to me.
Why then, is Cameron saying they will have to?
If border control is going to be necessary then it will also have to be implemented at the ferry and air ports; not just along the NI/Eire border.
Obviously.
Not a mistake; another scare story as if it would be impossible to do.
It is new to me.
They haven't but it is not they who are raising the issue as if it were impossible.
The Leavers say they want to prevent EU citizens coming to UK because some of them might be migrants, and other people coming from the EU who are not EU citizens because some of them might be migrants.
If you want to prevent people coming to the UK from the EU you can only do it if you have border controls.
The UK has a border with the EU where the Republic of Ireland meets Northern Ireland. Possibly at some future date there might be an EU border where the Kingdom of Scotland meets rUK.
If the Leavers want to control immigration, they must have border controls, and they must control all points of entry, which includes the NI border.
If they don't control borders, they are not controlling immigration.
What does Nigel's favourite word "Control" mean, if not that? His core voters want to keep foreigners out.
Has somebody said it is impossible? Who?
The Outists say they will not introduce border controls between the Republic of Ireland and the UK. If this is true, how can they control entry from the EU into the UK?
If you want to prevent people coming to the UK from the EU you can only do it if you have border controls.
The UK has a border with the EU where the Republic of Ireland meets Northern Ireland. Possibly at some future date there might be an EU border where the Kingdom of Scotland meets rUK.
If the Leavers want to control immigration, they must have border controls, and they must control all points of entry, which includes the NI border.
If they don't control borders, they are not controlling immigration.
What does Nigel's favourite word "Control" mean, if not that? His core voters want to keep foreigners out.
Has somebody said it is impossible? Who?
The Outists say they will not introduce border controls between the Republic of Ireland and the UK. If this is true, how can they control entry from the EU into the UK?
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I think we are talking at crossed purposes.
I know you don't know the answer because it is not relevant to you views.
However, the point I am trying to make is that if border controls become necessary it will also apply to the wet bits and gaseous bits around Britain; not just the wiggly line across Ireland - so what's the difference?
I know you don't know the answer because it is not relevant to you views.
However, the point I am trying to make is that if border controls become necessary it will also apply to the wet bits and gaseous bits around Britain; not just the wiggly line across Ireland - so what's the difference?
