Table Saw Vs Mitre Saw

[Deleted member 174758]

I will look for the 10" then I am just looking around and reading about what to look out for so looking for recommendations on the market as I prefer to purchase new so I have the warranty when it comes to my tools.

In that case I'd better answer your question about saw blades. It is always best to buy good quality saw blades. By looking around you can often pick-up remaindered/reduced/obsoleted blades from Bosch, Freud, deWalt, Elu, Makita, etc. in 250mm x 30mm bore size. For framing you'd need something like a 36 or 48 tooth blade. Look for blades specifically made for mitre saws - these should have a low to zero rake angle in this tooth count. Typically good blades should be running you around £15 to £35 in that tooth count. Two other blades to consider are Trend and Dart which are a cut above (pun intended) the Silverlines and Hilkas of this world

 

[justbigboned]

Hello,

I am looking at investing in a mitre saw and I am wondering what the difference is between that and a table saw. I currently have a table saw which works fine but people say that the mitres aren't very accurate on a table saw and a mitre saw would be better.

If a mitre saw is worth it what would people recommend what to look for etc?

Thanks

James

Hi James

Table saws are incredibly accurate if it's a good machine and properly set up and provide a similar finish to a mitre saw when using comparable blades. They are also more versatile and customisable than mitre saws, but far less portable of course. If a person went into a shop to buy a mitre saw for say, £150, they'd expect it to be able to cut accurate mitres, but that is far from reality and it's a common scenario. It's actually very hard to calibrate a saw to cut a perfect 45 degree mitre. By perfect, I mean picture framing accuracy or those needed for fine furniture. For many precision applications, a shooting board is required, which is where you use a perfectly calibrated jig and plane the angle until it's perfect.

My first question would be, what do you intend to do with the machine and what kind of accuracy do you feel you need?

 

[Roger928]

Really?

Yes really. I work with three joiners and they all have the same opinion. As does the local company who repairs them.
Between them they own five ls1013's and see nothing on the market to match its quality.
The new dewalts and the kapex are flawed. I've used them both.
Have the latest DW717XPS in my shed. The guy who owns it uses my ls1013 in preference.
What does that tell you?
Main flaw being the sliding rod design and I'm not alone in that finding.
Their depth of cut is wanting also.

 

[Roger928]

it will blow you away

Nope.
Very unimpressed.
The 10" dewalt? Unimpressed.

 

[Roger928]

For many precision applications, a shooting board is required

Or the out rigger assembly on a slider. Which is what I use.

 

[justbigboned]

Or the out rigger assembly on a slider. Which is what I use.

Mind elaborating? I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about a table saw jig?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Between them they own five ls1013's and see nothing on the market to match its quality.

Yes, but there are people who still (for some unfathomable reason) consider the MGB to be a classic car whereas anyone who owned one in the sixties knows that they were heavy, didn't handle well, had no performance and were unreliable rust buckets! As I have tried to point out the LS1013 has a considerable number of flaws in its' own right (e.g. that useless, almost unreadable bevel scale) but you have a soft spot for it and won't hear a word said against it.

The new dewalts and the kapex are flawed. I've used them both.

I didn't say the Kapex was unflawed - I did say it was accurate and highly repeatable - which is why a heck of a lot of shop fit joiners and kitchen fitters have bought them. It's a case of horses for courses - and in the world of high quality interior fit-out the LS1013 is an also ran. I haven't actually seen one on site, any site, either hired, company owned or owned by a tradesman, in 3 or 4 years now. If they were such a suitable machine for the task there would be a lot more of them about, wouldn't there? Personally, I don't regret selling mine (to a general builder) - the new owner is happy with his purchase, as I am with its' replacement. I've never really used a mitre saw for large capacity work (other than the occasional restoration/reproduction job where I'm dealing with stuff like massibve built-up cornices, etc) - for big timber joists I'd rather not knock a mitre saw about cutting compound joints especially when I have access to a Maffel 230mm plunge saw and rail system

 

[Roger928]

Mind elaborating? I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about a table saw jig?

One of these...

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Kinda big to lug upstairs so that you can cut and fix a bit of skirting, though, aren't they? Not brilliantly convenient for trimming 3.7m lengths of decking in the back garden, either, come to think about it......

I'd love to say "this is a DIY Forum" but the thought police out there would probably come and get me - for being an uppity tradesman who really should know his place better......

 

[justbigboned]

One of these...

I'd love to see how thats calibrated to do mitres suitable for fine furniture. Hammer is reasonable stuff for the money but I cant stand their sales process! You ask one question and then get about 100 phone calls a year where they refuse discounts and then you turn up at a trade show pretending to be a new customer and they offer a discount. Then theres the lead times..

I went with old Wadkin and Startrite stuff in the end. I do occassionally lust after some of the Format4 stuff though and the Hammer bandsaw, I forget the model, but it has a good rep.

Aside from machines dedicated to the task, I still think you'd struggle to make a repeatable mitre as accurate on any kind of multi use machine when compared to a shooting board. But as always, it's down to the accuracy of a persons angle gauges. I'd love to see it done to be honest, because shooting boards can be a pain if you have a lot of mitres to do in a short space of time.

Anyway, enough thread derailment, sorry OP.

 

[justbigboned]

Kinda big to lug upstairs so that you can cut and fix a bit of skirting, though, aren't they? Not brilliantly convenient for trimming 3.7m lengths of decking in the back garden, either, come to think about it......

I'd love to say "this is a DIY Forum" but the thought police out there would probably come and get me - for being an uppity tradesman who really should know his place better......

They do a set of wheels for it...lol

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Aside from machines dedicated to the task, I still think you'd struggle to make a repeatable mitre as accurate on any kind of multi use machine when compared to a shooting board. But as always, it's down to the accuracy of a persons angle gauges. I'd love to see it done to be honest, because shooting boards can be a pain if you have a lot of mitres to do in a short space of time.

I used to run a shop where our panel saw was an Altendorf F45 Elmo. I had a digital mitre gauge for that which read in increments of 0.1 degrees, which if you remembered to note down things was really repeatable. Downside of a saw like that was the mitre fence alone cost about twice what that Hammer does (new) - that and the enormous amount of space such a saw requires (about 600 or so square feet of floor space to be able to use it effectively)

 

[justbigboned]

I used to run a shop where our panel saw was an Altendorf F45 Elmo. I had a digital mitre gauge for that which read in increments of 0.1 degrees, which if you remembered to note down things was really repeatable. Downside of a saw like that was the mitre fence alone cost about twice what that Hammer does (new) - that and the enormous amount of space such a saw requires (about 600 or so square feet of floor space to be able to use it effectively)

Yup, they are top bits of kit, we have an F45 down at the boat yard in Spain, not that I have much use for such a beast myself. In that class, yeah, I'd expect reasonably accurate mitres and the gauge to be spot on. But to calibrate it, you'd need what...call it £5k worth of reference angles and other lab grade equipment to have it really perform 100%. I suspect he'd need an even larger set of wheels than for the Hammer, too. lol

As for me personally, I tend to look to the japanese artisans for joinery knowledge such as this, because their mitres are absolute perfection, and done with hand tools. There is this common misconception amongst relative beginners or even intermediates, that you must have the latest and greatest power tool to do good work, but it's simply not true. I'd say personally, that you need as much skill to set up a perfect mitre on an Altendorf, as you do to do one by hand as the Japanese do, it's just that the skill set is different.

Perfection in furniture joinery is incredibly difficult. I've been at it for many years and only now am I starting to get it to the point where my joinery is truly to fine furniture standard and it's still hit and miss on occasion, but thats part of the fun.

Back to the OP's conundrum. I'd love to tell him to get a Kapex, because it's probably the best mitre saw you can buy. But I cant help feeling that for the same money, he could get a couple of decent engineers squares/angles, a quality hand saw like a Disston, make himself a mitre box and then buy a lie nielsen 62 or whatever to finish the ends. Ah well, I suppose that involves a ton of skills too in various areas.

No simple answer to this question, but maybe I'm just nitpicking. Hard to know what someone else feels is acceptable to them. I guess it's just important to acknowledge that whatever you want to do in woodworking, there is a learning curve and no real shortcuts to producing quality work.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

There is this common misconception amongst relative beginners or even intermediates, that you must have the latest and greatest power tool to do good work, but it's simply not true.

Yes, I can sort of agree with that, but if you already have the skills a saw like the Kapex just makes getting a cut which is bang-on first time without any need to make adjustment cuts so much easier. I'm currently working on something where I have to use the firm's mitre saw (a Makita) and I've had to revert to using a good, sharp block plane to dial-in those mitres. Having done this for more than a few years it isn't an issue to me, but it does seem to be a skill which is in short supply these days

Back to the OP's conundrum. I'd love to tell him to get a Kapex, because it's probably the best mitre saw you can buy.

I can but agree, but I doubt that he'd get much advantage from owning one. Far better to spend a little time concentrating on getting the basic skills right, even if somewhat frustrating at times.

 

[EddieM]

Kinda big to lug upstairs so that you can cut and fix a bit of skirting, though, aren't they? Not brilliantly convenient for trimming 3.7m lengths of decking in the back garden, either, come to think about it......

I'd love to say "this is a DIY Forum" but the thought police out there would probably come and get me - for being an uppity tradesman who really should know his place better......

Not really, some of us DIY'ers have an interest in this stuff, and would dearly love to have a workshop kitted out with stuff recommended by time served pros's. Opinions such as yours and of course others are always gratefully received.