Sub-Board - Second Consumer Unit

[FRAN1870]

Ok so for arguments sake let’s say the sparky ran the cable ... and I didn’t touch it.

What size cable would you spec to run a sub board to the kitchen

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However as court cases do go on, over time Part P will grow, as added to the original is all the case law, so by now likely Part P is far bigger than BS7671 if we read all the cases,

Are you aware of a single case where someone has been prosecuted for contravening Part P?

however it seems in the main people are taken to court for claiming to be scheme members when they are not,

That's not a contravention of Part P.

I have not seen a single case where some one has been taken to court for breaching Part P law

So that will be a "no" then - you've not seen anything which would make "Part P far bigger than BS7671 if we read all the cases".

other than claiming to be scheme members when they are not

"Other than" doesn't work - claiming to be a scheme member when you're not is not a contravention of Part P.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ok so for arguments sake let’s say the sparky ran the cable ... and I didn’t touch it.

What size cable would you spec to run a sub board to the kitchen

The size the spark chose when he ran it, of course.

Look on his invoice - it might say there, but if not it will definitely say on the schedule associated with the EIC he gave you.

 

[AndyPRK]

You won't go far wrong with 10mm

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I do think that, in common sense terms (and the spirit of the 'proper' way), we get over-excited about this. Provided that none of the 'construction' work is concealed (i.e. remains totally open to inspection), that the signatory regards the design as acceptable and compliant (even if he/she might have done it differently) and provided that the results of their I&T are satisfactory, then I see no (common sense) problem with someone signing a 'single' declaration (even 'retrospectively'), even if they did not personally carry out some (or all) of the 'construction', do you?

Whether we do or not does not matter.

What matters is the attitude of the person being asked to falsify a declaration (and that IS what is, no matter how much "common sense" you try to use in obfuscation).

Do NICEIC etc allow their members to retrospectively do that and then notify via them?

If the OP wants to go down the route of forging ahead with DIYing this in a way that the law doesn't support, hoping to then find an electrician prepared to falsify a declaration, then all we can do is to advise him not to, and instead speak to an electrician up front.

It really would cost so little extra, if anything, to get agreement in advance that frankly the only reason I can think of for people not wanting to do that is that they have absolutely no intention of involving an electrician at all, but think that if they say they are going to get it "checked and signed off" that they'll get better advice here.

 

[JohnW2]

BS7671 is not law, Part P is law although badly written ...

Eh? Badly written? As I said, it's just one sentence and seems both very clear and sensible, essentially simply saying that electrical work must be done 'safely' (not endangering people or property). What do you think is 'badly written' about it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

As a matter of interest, how can Approved Document P be correct[sic] for both England and Wales?

It can't be, and isn't. When Wales and England parted company as regards notification rules, the new Approved Doc P (2013, if I recall correctly) says that it only applies to England.

I can but presume that the Welsh still use the previous version of ASDP.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I'm not at all sure what consequences there could/would be (should the matter ever be pursued, which it probably wouldn't) of 'falsifying' a declaration that one had complied with something which is not mandatory anyway.
'Notifying', via a Competent Person Scheme, work which the person notifying had not actually undertaken would be a different matter - but that does not appear to be what we are talking about.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

'Notifying', via a Competent Person Scheme, work which the person notifying had not actually undertaken would be a different matter - but that does not appear to be what we are talking about.

Oh.

So could that be signed off under part p?

I’m planning on running the cables myself and getting a sparky to check and sign it all off

 

[JohnW2]

The OP's interest may be about notification, but most of the discussion has been about the wording of the declaration in a (non-mandatory) BS7671-specified certificate.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That's true.

But there are many things in life which are not mandatory to do but which if done do have to be done according to laws, regulations, or just good old-fashioned honesty, morality and decency.

I appreciate that I am in a very small minority here for caring about the last three.

 

[JohnW2]

I would be very surprised if the great majority here did not care about honesty, morality and decency, but I don't think an 'Electrics' forum is a place to preach about such things. I would say that the most we should do is to ensure that an OP is aware of how things should be done.

 

[SimonH2]

The OP's issue may be that he will need to find an electrician who can be bothered to mess around like this.

Quite likely.
I've been in the position of looking for an electrician that will split the work - the most common response is that they are too busy, one informing me that he's currently taking orders for work next Easter such is his backlog. Seems that there's plenty of easy work going around, so no-one wants any "unusual" jobs.

 

[FRAN1870]

The size the spark chose when he ran it, of course.

Look on his invoice - it might say there, but if not it will definitely say on the schedule associated with the EIC he gave you.

He’s telling me 16mm I think it’s overkill

 

[FRAN1870]

Quite likely.
I've been in the position of looking for an electrician that will split the work - the most common response is that they are too busy, one informing me that he's currently taking orders for work next Easter such is his backlog. Seems that there's plenty of easy work going around, so no-one wants any "unusual" jobs.

Thanks blame Brexit

Seriously though I’m not sure what constitutes a decent job? There’s money waiting but other than the sub board it’s just a standard kitchen rewire?