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Sub-Board - Second Consumer Unit

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by FRAN1870, 7 Nov 2018.

  1. bernardgreen

    bernardgreen

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    Where does this declaration say that the person who made it is a "registered electrician" or has any qualifications relating to a process by which he or she has acquired the "skills and care" necessary to carry out the work.

    It is possible for electrical work to be carried out with the "reasonable skill and care" such that it is in accordance with BS 7671 by a person who has no formal qualifications.

    Only if some one questions the person's skill and care does that person have to justify their signature and ability. Questions may be asked by a Building Control Officer, an Insurance Company Underwriter or other interested party.

    Two points

    (1) The person must be able to satisfy the questioner that reasonable skill and care was used and the standard of work does meet a recognised standard of safety. This can be difficult if the person does not have the necessary skills, care and knowledge of what is a safe standard of work. Difficult but not impossible

    (2) Some installations signed off by qualified electricians are not carried out with "reasonable skill and care" and might only pay lip service to BS 7671. Some of these are discovered by random inspections by Building Control, the client or "scheme" managers before any harm is done. Some are only discovered after the event by Fire Investigation Officers.

    EDIT some text struck out
     
    Last edited: 8 Nov 2018
  2. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Clearly nowhere.
    Indeed so - although some in this discussion, although they are citing a declaration in a BS7671 form, appear to be talking about 'self-certification' (actually 'self-notification') - which is a totally different matter, which does require some qualifications (or, at least, 'qualifications')
    If anything were to be 'questioned' by any such third party (or even a court, should it get there) it would be the degree of competence which was exercised/exhibited by the person who undertook some particular work (presumably work that was being accused of having done some harm, or at risk of doing harm), not anything to do with the signing of any declaration on some piece of paper.

    Kind Regards, John
     
  3. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    I'm afraid it is when people "preach" the opposite.

    For example:

     
  4. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    Whether it is or not, if he's already installed it.....
     
  5. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    There is a difference between 'preaching' and 'observing'. I was observing that, in the situation I described, I see no reason why the person mentioned should not be allowed to sign a declaration (honestly), so it is just the wording of the declaration which creates the 'dishonesty. As I asked, I wonder how third parties would react if the person signing the declaration crossed out the "having carried out" clause (or modified it appropriately) - thereby turning it into an honest declaration.
     
  6. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    Well in that case this was just an observation:


    It is up to each of us to decide how important we think things like honesty, morality etc are, and thus how important it is to remind others how important they are.
     
  7. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Indeed, it's a personal opinion/decision - but it's also a personal opinion as to whether or not an Electrics forum is the place to remind people about such values - and I've indicated my personal opinion about that. Everyone to their own, I suppose.
     
  8. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    Absolutely every place, be it real or virtual, is a place to remind people about such values if they seem to be ignoring them.

    Unlike some, I do not check my values into a cloakroom when I enter the forum and leave them there until I depart.
     
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  9. FRAN1870

    FRAN1870

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    Really appreciate the notion of being honest and having the right interpretation of who can do what etc. I think it’s important to observe that the fact I’m asking a professional to help design and hook it up proves that I respect the regs etc.

    I’m happy to take guidance and if the sparky has to run it to be legal then I’ll let him do it... I just don’t like paying premium sparky rates for things like channeling into walls and pulling cables. There’s certain things I’m perfectly capable of doing myself.

    Anyway .... I assume he will end up using 16mm
     
  10. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    Then

    find

    an

    electrician

    who

    is

    happy

    for

    you

    to

    do

    some

    of

    the

    work

    yourself

    and

    agree

    with

    him

    before

    you

    do

    any

    exactly

    what

    and

    how.
     
  11. 333rocky333

    333rocky333

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    Appendix 6, although informative in the 17th suggests the form be signed by a competent person and competent person was defined in the Definitions of the regs,
    However in the 18th it is now a skilled person and the skilled person definition actually includes electrical training amongst other things.
     
  12. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    All true. However, what it requires of a skilled person is that, in relation to the nature of the work to be undertaken, the person shall have "adequate education, training and practical skills, and be able to perceive risks and avoid hazards which electricity can create".

    It says nothing about 'formal' training or qualifications, and 'education' can be self-taught and 'training' can be 'self-training'. As I hope you know, I am not one for 'blowing my own trumpet', but I would dare to suggest that I am probably at least as able to satisfy those requirements as is many an electrician (and even more, allegedly 'qualified', 'electricians'!), even though I have never been anywhere near anything remotely like an (electrics) 'training course', and, although I have a good few 'qualifications', none is remotely related to the activities of an electrician.

    I therefore think that this animal called a 'skilled person' is, per the definition, simply a 'competent' person (in the everyday sense of the word).

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  13. FRAN1870

    FRAN1870

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    Why so hostile fella? I really don’t understand what the problem is here?
    My sparky is happy for me to help him do things like pull cables and channel plaster etc? He’s happy to tell me what to do for basic first fixes and then use his superior skills to hook it up ... the only question I have here was seeking a second opinion about the 10mm or 16mm cable?
     
  14. ban-all-sheds

    ban-all-sheds

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    It is his decision.

    Not yours.

    Not mine.

    Not anybody else's.

    His.
     
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  15. Taylortwocities

    Taylortwocities

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