Installing free standing bath tap

[Milleniumaire]

I would really appreciate some advice on how to install a floor standing bath tap I have just purchased. It is the Nuie Bailey BAI321 and although there is a data sheet for the tap, there are no installation instructions and this is my first free standing tap install.

Although their awful website suggests there are downloadable instructions here, it actually downloads the Datasheet. Looks like their website was designed and built by one of their employees during their lunch break

So, here's what is provided to fix the tap to the floor:

20200528_181825

• Milleniumaire
• 28 May 2020

And this is how they fit together:

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• Milleniumaire
• 28 May 2020

What I've determined is that the chrome cover and brass fixing must be screwed on to the bottom of the tap column before the two tails can be screwed in as the nuts on the tail are "huge"!

Looking at the tails, they appear to be 9mm at one end and 1" at the other, but I think this translates to a 3/4" male screw?:

20200528_182106

• Milleniumaire
• 28 May 2020

20200528_182020

• Milleniumaire
• 28 May 2020

I appreciate that 3/4" fittings are usually used to attach to bath taps, but in this case, that end of the tail needs to attach to the pipes or possibly an isolation valve, so why on earth supply such a large fitting, especially when the bore of the tails is so small!

I believe a Compression Adapting Maile Coupler 15mm x 3/4" can be used to attach the tail to 15mm pipe (assuming I've got the size of the nut right).

I was wondering if I should replace the tails with some that had a smaller nut i.e. 1/2", possibly these (although they have an m10 fitting - not sure if it is the same size). Despite the size of the nut on the tails, they do seem to be reasonably good quality and I like the fact they have two rubber seals, rather than the one on all the tails sold by Screwfix. I'm assuming they are compatible.

In terms of installing the floor standing tap, is there a standard way of doing this? I had assumed I would position the supply hot and cold pipes up through the floor, then after tiling is complete, attach the tails to the pipes. However, there isn't any room in the bottom of the tap fitting (above the floor) to accommodate the tail ends, given they protrude a lot beyond the bottom of the fitting.

Alternatively, I could drill a large hole in the tiles/floor to allow the tails to attach to the pipes "below" the floor, but the 3 legs of the brass fitting are close together so this wouldn't allow the hole to be large enough.

I guess I could allow the brass fitting to fix to a small "platform" below the level of the floor. The chrome collar slides up and down the tap, so would cover the large hole, however, doing this would loose some of the height of the tap.

Another possibility might be to buy some "really long tails" and run these under the floor to the pipes which could be positioned underneath the freestanding bath as this has a "void" that would hide the connections.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Milleniumaire]

PS. While testing the links, I noticed some are not opening the destination webpage on Screwfix and instead give the following message:

"Unfortunately, due to the ongoing crisis the product page you requested is unavailable at this time. Here are a selection of similar options:"

I have no idea why this is happening as the links are correct, so I assume diynot is preventing access to Screwfix.

If you can be bothered, the URL behind the link can be copied and pasted into a new browser window and the diynot prefix removed!

 

[terryplumb]

I hope you have very good pressure on your hot and cold water supplies ,otherwise that taps water delivery would be dire.

 

[Milleniumaire]

I hope you have very good pressure on your hot and cold water supplies ,otherwise that taps water delivery would be dire.

I agree, however, we tend not to take baths so even if it is a problem it won't happen very often. Our hot and cold pressure is 3.5 bar, with the hot water being sourced through an unvented cylinder.

Our new freestanding bath holds 160 litres of water (upto the overflow), so at 3.5 bar pressure it would take 7 minutes to fill (22.4 litres/min), probably more like 5 minutes for a normal fill. I can live with that.

I guess you get what you pay for and this tap wasn't that expensive for a floor standing tap.

 

[terryplumb]

Ok . The thread Is likely 3/4 BSP ( equals around 25 mm). Looks like you will need access below floor ,in close proximity to the taps location. Drill hole in floor ,same size as the hole in the brass mount. Assemble tap to mount ,feed tap tail flexis thru floor and connect to tap. Screw mount / tap to floor and drop the chrome collar down.
Connect ,below floor ,flexis to 3/4 male fittings.Then connect to supply pipework.

 

[Milleniumaire]

Ok . The thread Is likely 3/4 BSP ( equals around 25 mm). Looks like you will need access below floor ,in close proximity to the taps location. Drill hole in floor ,same size as the hole in the brass mount. Assemble tap to mount ,feed tap tail flexis thru floor and connect to tap. Screw mount / tap to floor and drop the chrome collar down.
Connect ,below floor ,flexis to 3/4 male fittings.Then connect to supply pipework.

Thanks Terry.

Unfortunately, by the time the underfloor heating has been installed and the tiles laid, there will be no access underfloor unless breaking through the ceiling below.

Is it usual to have to get underfloor access to install a floor standing tap or is this one just badly designed?

 

[terryplumb]

To be frank ,I personally have only fitted a few over the years ,and as far as I can recall some had rigid copper stubs coming up through the floor,and tap fitted after tiling ,and some had flexible hoses ( larger diameter than yours has) but compression fittings at both ends,so tap could be fitted after tiling.
With what you have ,it's impossible to just bring the hoses through the floor and cap them ,as you could not then rotate them to screw them into the tap body. So final connection Has to be below floor level. Poor design really.

 

[Milleniumaire]

While searching for instructional videos for installing floor standing taps (in the hope of seeing something that might prove to be useful) I came across the following video:

This has an identical fitting to the tap I have.

The video makes it look very easy, however, the tails are much longer than shown in the video and also the large 3/4" nuts don't give much room and require additional fittings to be used on the end of the pipes, all of which takes up space.

The important thing is that the first fix supply pipes protrude above the floor surface, but due to the length of the tails on my tap, I'm not sure that is possible as there's not enough space for the tails to be bent and enclosed from what I can see.

Other videos I watched usually involve much more elaborate mounting systems using "stringers", which I believe is a wooden platform between the joists, allowing the supply pipes to be connected to a cartridge and the cartridge to be fitted to the "stringer" and for the tap itself to be fitted after the floor covering is completed. The tap fitting usually push fits!

 

[Milleniumaire]

After watching the video and with a sense of "hope", I had a look at the tap fittings again, but the tails are much too long, extending 7cm beyond the bottom of the brass fitting, so there's absolutely no way they can be simply "screwed" onto the pipe as shown in the video. The pipes would need to be in the ceiling void and this then requires access from either below or through a large hole above!

Useless piece of junk! Maybe I should just send it back and pay more for a tap with a decent mounting system.

Based on the following photo, would you say the tap end is size m10?

20200528_182106

• Milleniumaire
• 28 May 2020

 

[Madrab]

A freestanding tap, that is secured to the floor, needs access from the side, above or below. It is the only way you can fit the tap securely to the floor without needing a large hole to get the tails to the supply pipework and fix it properly.

You need to fit the tap to the floor then attach the pipework to the valves, turn it all on and check for leaks. Only way to do that is by having access to the connections/valves.

To be able to fit it as per that video, the tap tails would need to be an exact length, the supply tails in the floor would need to be at an exact height and secured so they can't move, so the flexi's could be tightened onto the tails properly. There would need to be enough space through that bracket to be able to fit a tool in etc.

Your tails are M10's

 

[Milleniumaire]

Having looked around at different taps, with a similar look to the one we have purchased (it is a similar style to our sink basin tap), it would appear that once you start spending around £650+ you then get a "proper" method of connection, usually where a separate fitting is plumbed in as part of the first fix and then, after the floor finish is complete, the floor standing tap column pushes into this fitting in some way. Much better than having a couple of tails that "somehow" have to be connected upto the pipes after the floor finish is complete.

As my wife doesn't want to spend that much on a floor standing bath tap I have been trying to think of a way of being able to fit this tap from above after the floor tiles have been laid.

I need flexibility! Copper pipes to the tap are not flexible enough, so I'm thinking of connecting some plastic piping to the existing copper pipes (these need to be re-routed to the new tap position), with an elbow below the hole for the tap fitting and another piece of plastic pipe running vertically to the hole in the floor. If I then replace the useless 3/4" x 10m tap tails supplied with the tap with some pushfit 15mm x 10m tap tails then I should be able to more easily connect the pushfit tails to the plastic piping. The use of the plastic piping should also give me the flexibility to pull it up to the hole a little to help with the connection. I had considered using some flexible hose under the floor instead of plastic piping, but then I'd have two lots of flexible piping connected together! I think using plastic piping and push fit tails should be easier than trying to fasten a large 3/4 inch nut using a spanner!

Any thoughts on this plan of action?

 

[Lower]

When i fitted my floor standing tap, i tiled the area where the tap was fitted and created an access hole in the floor to one side that i hadn't tiled. I fitted the tap, attached the pipes through the hole, screwed the access hatch i'd created back into place and then carried on with the tiling over the top. Any future access will need to be through the ceiling of the room below.

 

[Milleniumaire]

When i fitted my floor standing tap, i tiled the area where the tap was fitted and created an access hole in the floor to one side that i hadn't tiled. I fitted the tap, attached the pipes through the hole, screwed the access hatch i'd created back into place and then carried on with the tiling over the top. Any future access will need to be through the ceiling of the room below.

I had considered doing the same, but I don't like the idea of having to access the connections through the ceiling of the room below and would therefore prefer to be able to connect the taps up through the fitting hole and have future access through this same hole if required.

If it was upto me I would just send the tap back and buy a more expensive one that had a decent "two phase" installation method that allowed first and second fix, but the missus is insisting we don't spend more money!

 

[Lower]

Depending on what is below the taps, cutting a hole in the ceiling to access and making good afterwards isn't the end of the world in the event of a leak.

Is there no way that you could have fixed elbows sticking out of the floor that you could attach the flexi pipes to that would then be concealed under that cover?

 

[Milleniumaire]

Depending on what is below the taps, cutting a hole in the ceiling to access and making good afterwards isn't the end of the world in the event of a leak.

Is there no way that you could have fixed elbows sticking out of the floor that you could attach the flexi pipes to that would then be concealed under that cover?

I agree, if there was a leak then cutting the ceiling plasterboard below would be easier than ripping up the tiles, plywood and UFH boards, which would be a complete nightmare.

Unfortunately, the design of the tap is such that, well, there is no design thought given to connecting the tap up in an efficient way, which is why it was relatively cheap. It is simply a couple of tails, which are much longer than the tap so must be connected up underneath the floor, hence it isn't possible to have any pipes above the floor. Also, the diameter of the fixing bracket is just enough to get the two tails through. The tails also have huge 3/4" nuts, so I would need a 15mm to 3/4" adapter. No idea why they include a 3/4" tail, rather than a 1/2" tail, again, probably due to it being a cheap Chinese model.

In fact the only thing the tap has going for it is that it "looks nice" and seems to be fairly well made with a good chrome coating, but time will tell how good the coating is.

Changing the tails to pushfit and possibly slightly shorter tails, may help to enable a certain amount of pipe to be showing into the floor hole.