Toilet cemented into clay pipe?

[MikeyB86]

Hi there. In the process of removing LOVELY pink WC. But it's cemented into clay pipe. What do I do here? The pipe is around 200mm wide so can't just cut it put a pan connector as they are 147mm. Should I keep the collar and cut away cement and cement the new pan connector in?

I've got diamond tip angle grinder at the ready... just not sure where to cut and how to connect to WC that has a rear exit pipe rather than this one that goes to floor. Help as no idea what I'm doing and hoping to DIY.

Thanks. Mike

 

[SpecialK]

Carefully chip the mortar off and remove the toilet. The clay collar is very thick so measure up the adapter once removed. This adapter is probably the one you want screwfix 17227

 

[MikeyB86]

Legend. Thank you. Didn't accommodate the thickness of the clay. Think the bowl is cemented down too...so I'm gonna have to smash it up. Will try to leave the trap element attached to clay, but without bowl it will make the job easier to access.

 

[SpecialK]

Good idea. Put a plastic bag stuffed with other bags down the hole to stop debris falling down.

I did mine recently...went much easier than I had expected!

Legend. Thank you. Didn't accommodate the thickness of the clay. Think the bowl is cemented down too...so I'm gonna have to smash it up. Will try to leave the trap element attached to clay, but without bowl it will make the job easier to access.

 

[CBW]

Yes be very careful, you don’t want to crack the salt glazed/earthenware pipe.

 

[c128]

just not sure where to cut and how to connect to WC that has a rear exit pipe rather than this one that goes to floor. Help as no idea what I'm doing and hoping to DIY.

Yours looks similar to mine (that I still haven't got around to doing).
If it is, then a close coupled rear outlet toilet will leave you with a cistern quite a way from the wall - depending on the distance from the wall, a swan neck connector might/might not be enough to sort that out, but you still might need something to fill the gap behind the cistern.

There are still some bottom outlet pans available, but you might still have the same problem - I only found a handful that looked like they'd fit with how mine is (see here).

 

[MikeyB86]

Yes, the gap from the wall shouldn't be an issue as I will be installing a like-for-like (a Low Level toilet - where the cistern can be mounted separately)

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Clay pipe is Salt Glazed Stoneware, very commonly used for drainage up to the 1960's, (and still available today.) You'll find the wide part is the collar, (socket), designed to accept the spigot of another pipe, which would be a lot thicker walled than the WC outlet.

Best way to remove the WC is to carefully break it away, and then carefully remove the outlet, ideally leaving the mortar as intact as possible. I'd be very wary of trying to break the mortar, you run a high risk of breaking the salt glazed in the process, crack that and you've got big problems. Strongly advise you wear stout gloves whilst breaking up the pan, chinaware is similar to glass and will leave razor sharp edges, last thing you want is a wound especially with the level of bacteria present in a drain!

Once you've got the old pan removed you should find a standard pan connector, (the McAlpine are the better versions, e.g. https://www.screwfix.com/p/mcalpine-macfit-mac-8l-90-wc-long-pan-connector-white-90-112mm/95284), will fit comfortably into the pipe below the collar you can see. If you've managed to retain the mortar in the top, then you can always fill the gap between the pan connector and mortar with putty or silicone if you want to tidy things up.

New pan needs to be screwed to the floor, (make sure no hidden pipework under the floor before drilling!), and use Brass Screws to fix it down. (Steel screws will corrode and can crack the ceramic!)

 

[wookey]

Clay pipe is Salt Glazed Stoneware, very commonly used for drainage up to the 1960's, (and still available today.) You'll find the wide part is the collar, (socket), designed to accept the spigot of another pipe, which would be a lot thicker walled than the WC outlet.

Best way to remove the WC is to carefully break it away, and then carefully remove the outlet, ideally leaving the mortar as intact as possible. I'd be very wary of trying to break the mortar, you run a high risk of breaking the salt glazed in the process, crack that and you've got big problems.

OK. So lets say I'm not all that smart and cracked the collar off the old pipe, so the lowest point is about 30mm below floor concrete level and will be about 130mm below finished floor level (it's getting insulation added). I guess I need some sort of extension fitting to bring the pipe up high enough? Suggestions?

Also it looks like a modern close-coupled loo wants to sit further back than this sewer pipe location will allow. What does one do about that? Do all modern loos assume a horizontal outlet?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Could possibly use a McAlpine DC-1 connector, finned end into clay pipe, and socket will accept a 110mm plastic pipe. However, if existing drain is too far from the wall, options are, use a 'Swan Neck' pan connector to get over the difference, or if that wont work, dig the floor up, and use a couple of 45deg bends to 'dogleg' the drain back to a more suitable point.

Note though, 'S' Trap and bottom outlet pans are available to special order though is that is the way you want to go.

 

[wookey]

Cheers. Yeah that DC-1 connector might do the trick if I stick with the existing 1960s loo (which is in reasonable nick). But I'd have to be able to drill/chip/break off the concreted-in cup on the tail spigot without breaking said tail and I'm not sure what my chances of that are. Also it's not designed for a modern small-volume flush and doesn't flush all that well with the non-siphon valve it now has. But upgrading may be tricky with the soil-pipe hole centre being 265mm from the wall. I'll have to check if a swan-neck gives sufficient accomodation.
One could just mount the cistern 50-100mm away from the wall if need be...