Tragic - outcome might be interesting

[Nope]

Just jumping on the “unsafe electrics” bandwagon:

Had a colleague who was nearly killed not because of dodgy electrics but because of dodgy practices on his part.

He was a technician in a meat factory, and was working on a terminal - basically a complete computer inside a big metal box with a screen that fixed to the wall. He was doing…something with the internal components and he chose to do this while the thing was not only plugged in, but switched on too! With his big screwdriver he must have shorted something because there was an almighty BANG, and all the sockets in the office stopped working because the breaker tripped.

My colleague and I took the living p155 out of him for the next week or so, but of course it would have been no laughing matter if he had been killed.

 

[morqthana]

Taking the p*** was not all you should have done.

Dangerous occurrences - RIDDOR - HSE

The list of dangerous occurrences in Schedule 2 of RIDDOR is designed to obtain information primarily about incidents with a high potential to cause death or serious injury, but which happen relatively infrequently.

www.hse.gov.uk

And it was an EAWR contravention.

 

[plugwash]

He was a technician in a meat factory, and was working on a terminal - basically a complete computer inside a big metal box with a screen that fixed to the wall. He was doing…something with the internal components and he chose to do this while the thing was not only plugged in, but switched on too! With his big screwdriver he must have shorted something because there was an almighty BANG, and all the sockets in the office stopped working because the breaker tripped.

IMO the questions that should be being asked are.

Was he cutting corners?
Was he unaware of risks which he should have been aware of?
Was the equipment poorly designed and/or installed?

Often you can't practically troubleshoot a system if that system does not have power. A well-designed system should be designed to make this as safe as possible. A badly designed system may make this unnecessarily dangerous.

People are often reluctant to report things like this, because they fear that rather than the underlying issues being properly fixed, they will just get blamed for not following rules that are impractical to follow and/or will get more rules dumped on them that make their job even harder than it already is.

 

[Nope]

IMO the questions that should be being asked are.

Was he cutting corners?
Was he unaware of risks which he should have been aware of?
Was the equipment poorly designed and/or installed?

Often you can't practically troubleshoot a system if that system does not have power. A well-designed system should be designed to make this as safe as possible. A badly designed system may make this unnecessarily dangerous.

People are often reluctant to report things like this, because they fear that rather than the underlying issues being properly fixed, they will just get blamed for not following rules that are impractical to follow and/or will get more rules dumped on them that make their job even harder than it already is.

To answer your questions:

He was not unaware of the risks. The equipment was not poorly designed. He was changing some component or other (possibly a hard disk) that SHOULD have been changed with power off. He was just too lazy to power off the equipment, change the component and then power back on to test.

 

[CBW]

He was just too lazy to power off the equipment, change the component and then power back on to test.

If HSE were involved, he could have been prosecuted under the health and safety at work act 1974, possibly the company too.

 

[Nope]

If HSE were involved, he could have been prosecuted under the health and safety at work act 1974, possibly the company too.

Yes indeed. In fact part of the reason why my colleague and I took the p155 out of him was because he genuinely couldn’t see what he’d done wrong. In fact, when I for speaking to my other colleague later I said to her about how lucky he’d been, she scoffed and said “Lucky??? He’s a f*cking idiot and it’s a MIRACLE he wasn’t killed!”

 

[morqthana]

The equipment was not poorly designed. He was changing some component or other (possibly a hard disk) that SHOULD have been changed with power off.

I've worked on PCs & servers which are powered up. Depending on what you're doing that can be OK, or it can be hazardous to the health of the hardware or the sanity of its OS.

But you aren't going to find more than 12V inside.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

But you aren't going to find more than 12V inside.

Modern systems, correct, but back in the day - the early systems would have some quite lethal voltages floating around inside them. Perhaps the OP was talking about one of those early systems?

 

[SUNRAY]

Modern systems, correct, but back in the day - the early systems would have some quite lethal voltages floating around inside them. Perhaps the OP was talking about one of those early systems?

But we don't have a clue what the cabinet is, for all we know it may have been a main control panel with a 600A 3 phase supply for the conveyors carrying the carcasses.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

But we don't have a clue what the cabinet is, for all we know it may have been a main control panel with a 600A 3 phase supply for the conveyors carrying the carcasses.

Highly unlikely that an HDD, would share a cabinet with 600A 3 Ph, or indeed any mains voltage at all.

 

[Nope]

Ok, just to answer a couple of questions here - the cabinet my colleague was working on was basically a computer in a metal box that could screw onto a wall. While it would have been the case, as has been suggested, that there would not have been more than 12v across any of the components, my colleague touched part of the power supply, which was at 230V.

 

[SUNRAY]

Ok, just to answer a couple of questions here - the cabinet my colleague was working on was basically a computer in a metal box that could screw onto a wall. While it would have been the case, as has been suggested, that there would not have been more than 12v across any of the components, my colleague touched part of the power supply, which was at 230V.

OK so a computer in a secure enclosure. I don't quite see why that should be the case unless it's just a server but I'm happy with your description.

Highly unlikely that an HDD, would share a cabinet with 600A 3 Ph, or indeed any mains voltage at all.

I take it you have never worked in large control panels then.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

OK so a computer in a secure enclosure. I don't quite see why that should be the case unless it's just a server but I'm happy with your description.

I take it you have never worked in large control panels then.

Then you take it wrong...

I've worked in some very large control panels, involving very large currents and very high voltages.

 

[SUNRAY]

Then you take it wrong...

I've worked in some very large control panels, involving very large currents and very high voltages.

and never found electronic devices in them?... strange.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

and never found electronic devices in them?... strange.

Not HDD's. Thyristors, triacs and other backend controls, but the other low current devices always installed in separately isolated compartments. One exception, possibly being PLC's.