EV are they worth it?

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And yet, on this very thread, there is fierce opposition to kerbside chargers, and nobody has mentioned paying for them...

It was a comment on the

........... UK's habitual tardiness in creating and maintaining decent infrastructure.



.......trying to sue McDonalds when they burn themselves on a cup of it!

UK example?

And, this is again, a Karen-esque hyperbolic shrill from you: McDonald's mitigate the obvious risk from [hot coffee], with warnings, lids, trays......
They don't just say "F#cking idiot! Be more careful!"





In fact, I'd go further and say that MOST of the things people will try to claim compensation for these days, are hazards that have been around for much longer than the "litigious nature in which we now reside".

And where those hazards have not been mitigated against, or controlled effectively, they'll have a chance of succeeding.
 
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It was a comment on the

We can agree on that, but probably a bit of a side issue here?

UK example?

Oh, I see, this is just the UK is it? OK, well if we don't have ridiculous lawsuits here, what's your problem?

And, this is again, a Karen-esque hyperbolic shrill from you: McDonald's mitigate the obvious risk from [hot coffee], with warnings, lids, trays......
They don't just say "F#cking idiot! Be more careful!"

And you don't think the risks from kerbside chargers will be similarly mitigated? You mentioned electrocution in your last post, but that's already mitigated. Not only do the leads lock into both the car and the charger when live, but the cable has multiple contacts, including a "comms" wire, which, if the connection is broken, will instantly isolate the power. I'm still kind-of bemused at how I'm supposed to be the "shrill, Karen-esque" one in all this, when I'm actually the one sat calmly, saying "guys, this isn't as big a deal as you're making out", but...whatever... :rolleyes:

And where those hazards have not been mitigated against, or controlled effectively, they'll have a chance of succeeding.

Best mitigate them, then, instead of hysterically just throwing toys out of the pram and saying it'll never work... :)
 
Oh, I see, this is just the UK is it? OK, well if we don't have ridiculous lawsuits here, what's your problem?

Countering your Karen rant about Maccies' coffees (calling out your bull, which you were using to justify your position).
And you don't think the risks from kerbside chargers will be similarly mitigated?

I haven't commented on that; what I have done - consistently - is point out to you that your "just get on with it" approach will not work in the UK, with it's existing H&S framework.
We control risks here, not rely on people being observant and careful.
Glad to see that you're finally coming around to my position though.



You mentioned electrocution in your last post, but that's already mitigated.
I didn't mention it: I used it - in quotes - to summarise your stated position.
I am aware that electrocution risk is already mitigated.


Best mitigate them, then, instead of hysterically just throwing toys out of the pram and saying it'll never work... :)


Seeing as you started with "just watch your step!", you're now onto "better get rid of the trip hazard"........
Glad to see that you've come to my position, eventually.
 
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Countering your Karen rant about Maccies' coffees (calling out your bull, which you were using to justify your position).

That's what you call "countering", is it...? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: You have consistently failed to counter (just about any) of the points I have made, I'm afraid.

I haven't commented on that;

REALLY?! Just about your entire position throughout this, has been about that!

what I have done - consistently - is point out to you that your "just get on with it" approach will not work in the UK, with it's existing H&S framework.
We control risks here, not rely on people being observant and careful.
Glad to see that you're finally coming around to my position though.

Damn! You've just broken another irony meter! Now, please, stop putting words into my mouth. Would you like to go back and quote ANY of my posts where I have said "just get on with it"? Or shall I save you the bother (if not the embarrassment) by telling you that I have NEVER said that? Would you like to quote ANY of my posts where I've said "yes, I know you might trip / get electrocuted, but get used to it!"? (I could save you the embarrassment of trying to do that too, if you like)? ;)

In Post# I talked about the trip hazard being managed.

In Post#1076, I already said quite clearly that trailing charging leads across pavements was unacceptable.

(You didn't even join the discussion on this point until Post#1077, by the way...):rolleyes:

In Post#1087, I again stated that nobody is advocating trailing charging leads across a pavement.

In Post#1098, I spoke (again) about measures to mitigate risks...

At NO POINT have I EVER said that management of the risks should depend on people being observant and careful. (More words that you're trying to put in my mouth).

...and somehow, this represents a "coming round to your opinion"?:ROFLMAO: Please. Stop making a fool of yourself... It's like playing chess with a pigeon.:rolleyes:


I didn't mention it: I used it - in quotes - to summarise your stated position.
I am aware that electrocution risk is already mitigated.

Yet you mentioned it in Post#1094? (Funny enough, whilst trying to put words into my mouth)...

Seeing as you started with "just watch your step!",

What was I saying about putting words into other peoples' mouths? It's really not nice...

you're now onto "better get rid of the trip hazard"........

As explained above, not so much "now" as "all throughout this chain of posts"... :rolleyes:

Glad to see that you've come to my position, eventually.

Yes. In fact, such are your incredible powers of persuasion, that you had even managed to convince me before you'd posted anything on the issue!:D
 
That's what you call "countering", is it...? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: You have consistently failed to counter (just about any) of the points I have made, I'm afraid.



REALLY?! Just about your entire position throughout this, has been about that!



Damn! You've just broken another irony meter! Now, please, stop putting words into my mouth. Would you like to go back and quote ANY of my posts where I have said "just get on with it"? Or shall I save you the bother (if not the embarrassment) by telling you that I have NEVER said that? Would you like to quote ANY of my posts where I've said "yes, I know you might trip / get electrocuted, but get used to it!"? (I could save you the embarrassment of trying to do that too, if you like)? ;)

In Post# I talked about the trip hazard being managed.

In Post#1076, I already said quite clearly that trailing charging leads across pavements was unacceptable.

(You didn't even join the discussion on this point until Post#1077, by the way...):rolleyes:

In Post#1087, I again stated that nobody is advocating trailing charging leads across a pavement.

In Post#1098, I spoke (again) about measures to mitigate risks...

At NO POINT have I EVER said that management of the risks should depend on people being observant and careful. (More words that you're trying to put in my mouth).

...and somehow, this represents a "coming round to your opinion"?:ROFLMAO: Please. Stop making a fool of yourself... It's like playing chess with a pigeon.:rolleyes:




Yet you mentioned it in Post#1094? (Funny enough, whilst trying to put words into my mouth)...



What was I saying about putting words into other peoples' mouths? It's really not nice...



As explained above, not so much "now" as "all throughout this chain of posts"... :rolleyes:



Yes. In fact, such are your incredible powers of persuasion, that you had even managed to convince me before you'd posted anything on the issue!:D

Do you feel better now?

:ROFLMAO:
 
At the risk of encouraging you to pick up the combs again, I'm going to suggest that:

-There is little if any more litigation than there used to be about such matters

-Like yourselves, I simply can't be bothered to find out whether the statement I've just made is true

Cheers, Stephen
 
You're getting desperate over these trip hazards, @Avocet .

Show me a petrol pump hose, slung across a pavement and left unattended for even an hour, and I'd begin to give your point some credence.

Even more so, if you showed me multiple hoses similarly laying there.

I'm alright though, as I have a driveway.

There are valid arguments, and hills upon which to die.
Defending charge leads across pavements is one such hill, IMHO.

Exactly. Avo is about as desperate as a coach party of incontinent 80-something ladies stuck in roadworks. Desperate to find any reasons, no matter how ridiculous or preposterous, to counter the common sense and logic of far-sighted individuals on here who can see the coming big problems.

Depreciation on his EV must really be stinging. :oops: :(
 
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Exactly. Avo is about as desperate as a coach party of incontinent 80-something ladies stuck in roadworks. Desperate to find any reasons, no matter how ridiculous or preposterous, to counter the common sense and logic of far-sighted individuals on here who can see the coming big problems.

Man, that's funny! The only desperation on here, is from grumpy old gits terrified of having their toys taken away, and unable to accept change! :D

Depreciation on his EV must really be stinging. :oops: :(

I wouldn't know - it's a company car...:giggle:
 
who can see the coming big problems.
It's funny you should say this. There is a coming bigger problem that absolutely trumps the coming bigger problem you're talking about..

You probably won't be around to experience it mind, which might be why you don't care so much?
 
I am aware that electrocution risk is already mitigated.
Missed that, how is it mitigated? The problem I will admit is not limited to EV's, any items used outside the equipotential bonded area i.e. outside where it is earthed i.e. not class II there is a problem with loss of PEN there are a list of methods to reduce or remove the risk, however back in the 70's I well remember a problem with portable traffic lights, and although in the main the human can cope with 50 volt to earth, 25 volt can kill a cow, as to dogs and cats and other small animals it was not raised at the time, so don't know, but to raise what is considered as a safe touch voltage to get around the problems with TN-C-S supplies (PME) to 70 volt is not the answer.

We have three basic methods, 1) Don't use a PME supply. 2) Have a sample earth rod to switch off the supply if the supply earth voltage exceeds a limit. 3) Measure the voltage.

In reverse order our voltage is 230 volt +10%-5% so 253 to 218.5 so there has to be a 34.5 volt allowance, but although this works with a three phase system, with a single phase taken from a three phase system the PEN to true earth voltage can exceed the 50 volt while the PEN to line is still within the 34.5 volt limit.

Lost of PEN was rare, but with the extra loading on the system due to EV charging and heat pumps, the recorded incandesces is increasing, what we would hope is at the time of the PEN failure that no one is touching the EV and that before anyone does touch it the supply (this includes the earth) is isolated.

The other two methods have problems as to where earth rods are located, if it happens to be near some metal services they may not work, but too complex to go into here.

But the big problem is the granny charger, I like many others have an outside socket so I can use class II gardening equipment, and if some one was to visit with an EV as a one off I would be willing to allow them to charge their car. However where the problem lies, is if I bought an EV, now my mileage is very low, so I do not really need a 7 kW charger, in the main 2 kW would be fine, so it would be tempting not to bother with an EV charge point and use the existing 13 amp outdoor socket.

Since in my drive, milkman, postman, and my family only walk the drive, so risk is low, but if I used on street parking, and one of those cable protectors to remove the trip hazard, then people walking past the car increases, and so does the chance with loss of PEN some one touching the car.

Now the question is does the granny charger detect loss of PEN, well some do, and some don't, if using the charger in other countries where the voltage is not so steady, then to have loss of PEN detection could cause problems.

However it does not need to be a EV charger which causes the problem, hot tubs, and patio heaters may also have the earth connected, there are some which are class II but not all, so the question is should PME supplies ever have been permitted?

I see no reason why the built in EV charger of the car needs to be class I, it would be easy to make it class II, I know we did the same with a narrow boat, the shore supply went to the isolation transformer of the battery charger only so boat hull was not connected to shore supply earth, OK more of an issue was galvanic corrosion protection. However there is no reason why the car body needs to be earthed, and if it was not earthed there would be no problem with loss of PEN.

However as it stands there is still a problem so how is it "now is it mitigated"?
 
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