Generator advice needed - thinking of buying one for a small bungalow

[morqthana]

ummm......

WEN DF475T Dual Fuel 120V/240V Portable Generator w/ Electric Start Transfer Switch Ready, 4750-Watt, CARB Compliant - AliExpress 15

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[JohnW2]

ummm......

Good price for a generator, even before they reduced it by 77% from £9. However ...

... and a pretty small flag, at that

 

[Wayners]

I listen to American preparers.
They say car inverter 240v will get you through a few hours in an emergency and less than £100

The best is a mains gas generator but that needs professional installation.

I sold my 2000w generator for £50 on eBay as I never used it. Even when the power was off for 3 days

 

[ericmark]

Good point and fridge and freezer not being on all the time, hadn't thought of that.

As for hiring a generator for a day to try it, I'll see what's available.

This was 9th Dec, whatever @Rollerball has decided, seems he has now made up his mind?

There have been some good points raised, the main one for me, is why do we use FCU for central heating supplies, is this to stop one using a generator in an emergency? And no, not a daft question, I have found boilers which seemed to use the earth in an odd way, the ignition spark often arcs to some earthed metalwork.

Other is inrush for refrigeration devices when they start, how much is it? How big of a generator (I include inverters) is needed to start a freezer?

Also square wave inverter or simulated sine wave as it called, what can use this type of inverter? I have used the small ones without a problem.

As to the large inverter, I caught a cold, it had an array of FET's and blade type motor vehicle fuses to try and make the load on each even, this was a 3 kW and 6 kW peak inverter, so not small, the fuses did not even out the load, and running the washing machine off it, it released the blue smoke and burnt out. Not straight away, and it would work with lower loads without a problem. It was clearly a poor design, cost me around £200 to learn the lesson not to buy too cheap.

The 5 kW inverter installed in my house now works without a problem, and had done for 18 months, but it was not cheap.

I wanted my freezers to continue to work in a power outage even if I am not home. There is a huge difference in price to something automatic, and something where you need to manually change over supply. And even with my automatic system, it only runs freezers and central heating, 5 kW seems a lot, but it needs a supply, be it a liquid fuel or a battery, in my case the battery is 6.4 kWh and can charge at 4 kW and discharge at 6 kW although since the inverter is only 5 kW that's my limit.

For the first time in a week, it seems the solar production is greater than back-ground house use, and the batteries are actually recharging, but to ensure the heating works, I have only got freezers and central heating on the back-up, as don't want lights to use up the battery, this is mainly due to using smart bulbs, which, if there is a brown out can auto switch on.

It would be nice if @Rollerball says what he decided in the end, but think this thread has now wander off subject and run its course.

 

[SimonH2]

... the main one for me, is why do we use FCU for central heating supplies, is this to stop one using a generator in an emergency?

Because some MIs used to specify that, and even where they don't, gas fitters don't know the difference between "must have isolation with min 3mm contact clearance" and "must use a fused connection unit with BS1362 fuse and min 3mm contact clearance". When mum's boiler was replaced, they removed the socket and fitted an FCU. When I asked them to refit the socket, he was adamant the MIs demanded it (they didn't), and he was "a bit annoyed" at having to do it.

Bit in short, the answer is that there is normally no valid reason why an FCU must be used and not a plug/socket. A plug allows for isolation, and it also allows for using an alternative supply if needed.

 

[Burnerman]

We had a 6hr power outage a month ago, -5 outside.
My brand new Heatslave 2 has it's own plug, so the generator gave us heat, lighting and the occasional use of the microwave.......trailing leads all over the place.
John

 

[JohnW2]

.... gas fitters don't know the difference between "must have isolation with min 3mm contact clearance" and "must use a fused connection unit with B1362 fuse and min 3mm contact clearance". .... Bit in short, the answer is that there is normally no valid reason why an FCU must be used and not a plug/socket.

... which, as you imply is just daft. Even though the switch in an FCU should, and virtually always will, provide at least 3mm contact occasion, once in a blue moon it may not (indeed, may not provide any 'contact separation at all !). However, if these people has just a tiny bit of electrical common sense, they should understand that a plug/socket provides the ultimate in 'guaranteed isolation'!

 

[morqthana]

Good price for a generator, even before they reduced it by 77% from £9. However ...

View attachment 373083
... and a pretty small flag, at that

That ran for less time than I'd expected - was it the quoted size of 20X30cm which rang alarm bells, or just the "if it seems to good to be true it probably is" principle?

 

[JohnW2]

That ran for less time than I'd expected - was it the quoted size of 20X30cm which rang alarm bells, or just the "if it seems to good to be true it probably is" principle?

Neither, really - I just scrolled down to see what else it had to say, until I came to the bit which said "This product is a flag"

 

[Risteard]

I have the same issues as you.
I have a 3500 kva generator, Briggs and Stratton powered, which means it can deliver 3000W continuous.
All I do is to run an extension lead from the genny through a window, so I can plug the oil boiler into - which has a normal 13A plug. So, I have heat - most important.
There is plenty of juice left for a kettle and some trailing lamps, it will run the microwave and a toaster, but not at the same time.
I don’t have it connected into any of the house circuits for obvious reasons.
See what Machine Mart have to offer.....Honda engines are quietest but most expensive.
My genny is sometimes unused for 12 months or more so I use Aspen fuel that lasts 5 years.....if the machine is working for many hours at a time then ordinary petrol is just fine.
John

3.5kVA rather than 3,500kVA!!!!!!!!

 

[robinbanks]

Definitely a generator; it generates cash for the seller - £2600 so far!

 

[Burnerman]

3.5kVA rather than 3,500kVA!!!!!!!!

Aye, it would take some Briggs engine to spin that one!
John

 

[JohnD]

You mention running a kettle off the generator.

This would be a poor move.

My house uses about 300W to 500W to run the lights, fridges, boiler, TVs etc. This would only need a small and inexpensive supply.

Demand rockets when heating appliances are turned on, such as washing machine, toaster, kettle, immersion heater, dishwasher, which are about 3kW each during the heating cycle.

If you have a gas boiler, and preferably a gas cooker (even a camping stove) you will not need a big generator.


As for connecting a generator to your household circuits, this needs proper isolation. It is forbidden by the Electricity Act unless it is impossible for power to be sent into the grid, powering your neighbour's houses and possibly killing an engineer trying to repair cable damage. Solar inverters and similar devices have special approvals and have to be installed by an approved electrician. This would increase your cost. An extension cable into the kitchen, to run the boiler, fridge and phone chargers, and some LED camping lanterns for other rooms, will enable you to live in reasonable comfort for short periods.

Ordinary solar inverters automatically switch off in a power cut. Some have an emergency supply socket, independent of the house circuits.

Some hybrid cars (not mine) have a power socket in the boot you can use for camping or picnics.

 

[ericmark]

I have wondered if I can connect a generator to my inverter, I see no option here

unless I got another plug and could swap the AC Terminal plug? That is what it seems to say here

However I have not had enough power cuts to be worth getting it to work with a generator, but the system it seems will decide when a generator is required and auto start and stop it. Today at the moment running the clothes drier, I am monitoring the solar production, not high, but more than I would use without the dryer, and this is the problem, one becomes a slave to the weather, deciding when to switch things on/off, a dryer takes 2.5 hours, and only draws 600 watt, so it needs to go on before the battery is full, or still exporting.

To use a generator used for camping to run the house in a power cut is one thing, to buy a generator in case of a power cut is something else.

 

[SimonH2]

I have wondered if I can connect a generator to my inverter, I see no option here View attachment 373283 unless I got another plug and could swap the AC Terminal plug? That is what it seems to say here View attachment 373284However I have not had enough power cuts to be worth getting it to work with a generator, but the system it seems will decide when a generator is required and auto start and stop it. Today at the moment running the clothes drier, I am monitoring the solar production, not high, but more than I would use without the dryer, and this is the problem, one becomes a slave to the weather, deciding when to switch things on/off, a dryer takes 2.5 hours, and only draws 600 watt, so it needs to go on before the battery is full, or still exporting.

To use a generator used for camping to run the house in a power cut is one thing, to buy a generator in case of a power cut is something else.

Your options are to manually change the connection and manually start the genny, or install an ATS (automatic transfer switch) so the inverter can switch the input from mains to genny when needed (and start the genny if you install the remote control interface).