Ukraine counter offensive

Un reliable plus they would not co operate

European army :ROFLMAO: Who would be the overall commander ??

Who would have control ?

Numerous countries all arguing about this and that

The French would want all the arrangements in the French launguage

The Dutch would be bombed out if there eads on spliff and other drugs

Than there would be some type of diversity rules and regs

Rainbow flags

European army

Yes exactly :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

How do NATO cope?
 
How do NATO cope?

NATO have never really been tested so I dunno

But the overwhelming reliance was on the US

Europe bunch of winkers imho

Hopeless mob

They could not sort out an issue in the Balkans untill the US got involved

Pictures / films of British troops captured by Serbs chained to telegraph poles

Dutch abandoning there post resulting in the execution of thousands of Bosnian civilians

French general marooned in some Serb town

Shocking example of European military power and co operation

Death camps
Torture camps
Concentration camps
Ethnic cleansing

All in Europe under the noses of hopeless / useless European governments / winkers

Oh hang on the EU sent some observers another waste of space organisation
 
NATO have never really been tested so I dunno

But the overwhelming reliance was on the US

Europe bunch of winkers imho

Hopeless mob

They could not sort out an issue in the Balkans untill the US got involved

Pictures / films of British troops captured by Serbs chained to telegraph poles

Dutch abandoning there post resulting in the execution of thousands of Bosnian civilians

French general marooned in some Serb town

Shocking example of European military power and co operation

Death camps
Torture camps
Concentration camps
Ethnic cleansing

All in Europe under the noses of hopeless / useless European governments / winkers

Oh hang on the EU sent some observers

Now we know we have to do it and once we get fully up to speed I reckon a joint force of UK, German and French will be pretty formidable.

But we need to remember that the world has been scared since WW2 of a fully armed Germany, which is why the Germans haven't taken it particularly seriously. If they get the bloodlust again, people might wish they had been kept in their box.
 
You seem to be talking in riddles. Could you please put a coherent few sentences together to explain what you mean?

Take much notice of that fruit cake ( nut job)

He thinks the war was all a
Mistake the Russians were just passing through the Ukraine and it went pear shaped

That’s what he was peddeling a good while back

Yes exactly a **ll end
 
Trump wants to get rid of NATO article 5

The only country ever to invoke article 5 was America.

Oh the irony
 
Here's the summary.

EU (including UK) have taken their eye off the defence ball over recent decades. Acknowledged by leaders at Munich conference.
Now requires expedited increase in funding to bolster our defences.
EU saying no need for creation of EU Army, it essentially already exists.
Most leaders saying if their respective countries increase funding, citizens will expect to see results for the increased tax take through things like increased employment in the defence sector within each country.

In a way it's no different to so many different areas. We take our eye off the funding ball for x years/decades and then think 'oh sh1t, we need to invest tons more and quickly!'

In layman's terms, we need to tool ourselves up to the proverbial eyeballs so any of the usual suspects would think twice about attacking.

I'll say it again, where are all the do-gooders out there who over recent years/decades have been calling for vast reductions in our defences, where are they, eh? I don't see them on tv progs saying it's wrong to get tooled up. Idiots. Wanted us to do away with our nuclear deterrent?!? Pr1cks.
 
Here's the summary.

EU (including UK) have taken their eye off the defence ball over recent decades. Acknowledged by leaders at Munich conference.
Now requires expedited increase in funding to bolster our defences.
EU saying no need for creation of EU Army, it essentially already exists.
Most leaders saying if their respective countries increase funding, citizens will expect to see results for the increased tax take through things like increased employment in the defence sector within each country.

In a way it's no different to so many different areas. We take our eye off the funding ball for x years/decades and then think 'oh sh1t, we need to invest tons more and quickly!'

In layman's terms, we need to tool ourselves up to the proverbial eyeballs so any of the usual suspects would think twice about attacking.

I'll say it again, where are all the do-gooders out there who over recent years/decades have been calling for vast reductions in our defences, where are they, eh? I don't see them on tv progs saying it's wrong to get tooled up. Idiots. Wanted us to do away with our nuclear deterrent?!? Pr1cks.
Lot of conflation again.

But who are these people that wanted cuts to defence, and infrastructure structure generally,? And austerity.

Tories, and there supporters.

Most sensible people have been saying we need to pay taxes and keep our infrastructure.
 
Most sensible people have been saying we need to pay taxes and keep our infrastructure.
You would think/hope. !!! Unfortunately it doesn't get you elected.
I hope the rumours(?) about Reeves increasng taxes have something in them.
We had covid, we have a war - tough.
 
Lot of conflation again.

But who are these people that wanted cuts to defence, and infrastructure structure generally,? And austerity.

Tories, and there supporters.

Most sensible people have been saying we need to pay taxes and keep our infrastructure.
Conflation
Conflation
Conflation
Conflation
Conflation
Conflation

That enough conflation for you?
 
Trump's usual tactic of saying something outrageous and hoping people will react in the way he wants, is in play.
He doesn't think much of the Europeans' antics on importing fuel from Russia, and not growing their own defences.
"FFS Europe what are you playing at", perhaps.
He obviously wants Europe to shout foul and do something, but I don't know what.
Trump has power over Russia in that he can undercut them on LNG and oil costs. Russia's Shadow fleet is breaking sanctions, which the Euros could do a lot about. How big that is I don't know.
The US has choices due to their "exceptionalist" economic might. They could support or encourage European govs/companies to grow rapidly, for example. It doesn't need to be overt, they could buy bonds for example.

Not sure what Zelensky is doing wrt minerals. He wants arms, he has minerals. Zelensky said no.
Again Trump has probably demanded something stupid as his opening gambit.

--

I've been saying for years that I think drones are the future of warfare, more than is realised. I used to know a fair bit about how they worked, I'll be way out of date now. The Ukranians are very good at effective cheap military drones, as are many countries such as China.
They're cheap. If you can send huge numbers of drones with relatively small amounts of high explosive, throughout another country without getting most of them stopped, you can stop that country operating. Completely.
Oil, gas, water and electricity supplies as well as comms and transport controls, and computer centres, are quite delicate.
How many incendiary grenades does it take to knock out an oil refinery or an LNG carrier? In the latter case, just one hit, could knock out the entire fleet's operation.

I wondered if Putin's(?) strike on the Chernobyl reactor was just an example saying, "Hey, we can hit anything we like, regardless of its defences".

I daresay we can't find out what current capabilities are. Here's a sniff of what there was, TWELVE years ago:

"The Orion UAS completed its first flight in August 2013. It can carry multiple payloads of 2,600lb, including full-motion video electro-optic/infrared (EO/IR) sensor, communication relay equipment, radars, signal intelligence (SIGINT) and wide-area airborne surveillance (WAAS) equipment. The wing hardpoints of Orion can also be mounted with munitions.

The dual Austro Engine AE300 heavy-fuel engines fitted in the Orion UAS ensure a high endurance of five days or more than 120 hours with a 1,000lb payload. The UAS has a dash speed of 120k and ferry range of 24,140km. It can fly at a maximum altitude of 30,000ft."


There were, even then, solar powered drones which could stay aloft indefinitely.
As the Ukranians point out, they have drones which are offensive but also very cheap. Whatever the Russians knock them down with, costs far more than the drone. And it still crashes somewhere.
 
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Most brits sadly seem more interested in the chancellors expenses 20 years ago than tne prospect of ukrane beinghanded on a plate to pootin
to be fair
most will be at best tutting under there breath with most thinking compared to past fiascos its in general its off marginal concern
some will think [or try to suggest ]her world is collapsing around her now these are all valid thoughts but compared to what has gone on in recent years the accusers should at least be embarrassed at having no shame as i am sure a lot off the complainers have matched or exceeded to far exceeded what she may or may not have misrepresented as the exact situation
 
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