Getting electric and gas meters moved externally, new cabinets required

[cdbe]

You can get semi-recessed boxes with a depth of 120mm - you'd need to rebuild the inner leaf with bricks on edge. But as I said earlier, and obviously I don't know the whole story, but unless you need that wall clear inside it seems like a good way to waste two thousand quid.

 

[danlightbulb]

You can get semi-recessed boxes with a depth of 120mm - you'd need to rebuild the inner leaf with bricks on edge. But as I said earlier, and obviously I don't know the whole story, but unless you need that wall clear inside it seems like a good way to waste two thousand quid.

View attachment 374458

It was suggested to me on another forum that getting the actual gas/electric supply moved would only be a couple hundred quid per service.

The brickwork element/fitting the new external cabinet I would be looking to do myself. If I can't then yes the cost of getting a trade in to do this for me would not be worth it.

That product above, its really not clear what its dimensions are. It says depth 120mm but doesn't give any specifics. Does it mean the whole unit, or the opening, or what? A standard box is 210mm total depth with 160mm of that in the opening and 50mm protruding.

I'd also need a shallow gas box as well - as I need to do both.


What about fitting a standard flush box shallower? I could do this by making a frame surround that pushes the box further from the wall than standard, for example out of timber painted white or upvc extrusion.

Hope you can visualise what I mean by this.

As the standard box is 210mm deep with a 50mm protrusion, I would need a 60mm deep frame to make the opening around 100mm deep and the protrusion would then be about 110mm, which is half the protrusion of a surface mounted box.

 

[danlightbulb]

Are the walls insulated internally? I'm thinking cold bridging issues etc?

Part of me is wondering whether a built-in box is actually suitable for a 9" solid wall...? It throws up issues such as thermal bridging and fixing (to the wall) issues and the risk of puncturing the box.

I'd hold your horses and check with your utilities.

At the moment Im trying to formulate a plan. Yes I would absolutely need to discuss with the utilities. Ive already emailed Octopus (my supplier), they said they can't do an internal to external move and its a DNO job. I have replied asking how I start the process with the DNO.

Regarding insulation. No the internal walls are not insulated and in general across the house I have more work to do on this.

When I redo the kitchen I will probably look to use some insulation behind the kitchen base cabinets. If my plan works regarding these meters, the area where the meters are located could be covered from the inside by a layer of insulation.

I don't think the thermal bridging is any different to a cavity wall house here. If a standard meter box is 160mm deep recess then you only have one skin of internal brick anyway. If all goes to plan, that will be what I also have.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It was suggested to me on another forum that getting the actual gas/electric supply moved would only be a couple hundred quid per service.

The way to find out, is to ask you suppliers for a quote.

What about fitting a standard flush box shallower? I could do this by making a frame surround that pushes the box further from the wall than standard, for example out of timber painted white or upvc extrusion.

Why when you can buy ready-made shallow cabinets? I also doubt the fitter would even accept that, because of the risk of rain getting in.

The fitter will likely expect a hole in the wall, and the cabinet ready to install into the wall, so that cables and pipes can more easily installed.

You will need your own electrician, to deal with the new tails to your consumer unit - worth getting an isolator, included in the tails, next to the meter.

You will also need a gas qualified engineer, to refeed your house supplies, from the new meter position.

Getting all the above together, so it happens on the same day, is unlikely.

 

[danlightbulb]

Why when you can buy ready-made shallow cabinets? I also doubt the fitter would even accept that, because of the risk of rain getting in.

You cant seem to buy shallow cabinets, unless you have a better link? The one posted above is a) not in stock, b) unclear dimensionally, c) for electric only (I'd need one certified for gas as well). Google isn't revealing anything else.

On your second point, how would the rain get in? The flush cabinet itself is still a single plastic unit with an inset door at the front. I'd not be doing anything to put a hole in the unit so it would still be as rainproof as before, just mounted 60mm further from the wall than normal.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

On your second point, how would the rain get in? The flush cabinet itself is still a single plastic unit with an inset door at the front. I'd not be doing anything to put a hole in the unit so it would still be as rainproof as before, just mounted 60mm further from the wall than normal.

My cabinet has holes cut in the upper surface, to allow the tails to exit, up to the CU, on the inner leaf, so any water which might make it's way onto that top surface, could not only get into the cabinet, but into the cavity too. The cabinet lip, is sealed to the wall, to prevent that. The door, is likewise designed to shed rain. Using wood, or UPVC, sounds like a botch, which would be difficult to manage to seal against the weather.

Have you looked here? https://www.meterboxesdirect.co.uk/gas-meter-box.html

 

[danlightbulb]

My cabinet has holes cut in the upper surface, to allow the tails to exit, up to the CU, on the inner leaf, so any water which might make it's way onto that top surface, could not only get into the cabinet, but into the cavity too. The cabinet lip, is sealed to the wall, to prevent that. The door, is likewise designed to shed rain. Using wood, or UPVC, sounds like a botch, which would be difficult to manage to seal against the weather.

Have you looked here? https://www.meterboxesdirect.co.uk/gas-meter-box.html

Hmm Im not sure it would be difficult to seal. If I made the frame out of timber (if that was allowed), that could be screwed to the wall bedded on exterior sealant. Then the flush box could also be bedded on sealant as well. Then the whole show could be sealed with a bead all the way around.

Have you looked here? https://www.meterboxesdirect.co.uk/gas-meter-box.html

Yeah.

The surface mounted box for gas is this:

Its 242mm deep. I can't accommodate that depth in my side entry passageway.

I have to recess it somehow.


This is the recessed box:

Its 214mm deep but only 50mm protrudes from the wall. That is TOO deep, as I have a 9" (c225mm) solid wall house.


My options as I see them are to get the surface mounted box, and recess it into the wall by 100mm. Or, get the flush mounted box and bring it out from the wall by 60mm using a surround.

 

[cdbe]

If you can't find the one I posted to (it was only a quick search), you could "frame" the new openings in the brickwork to create the required depth, ie turn the last full bricks 90° so they stick out say 50mm and fit 50mm offcuts on the opposing courses.

I think moving costs depend on dno and possible distance but I've heard £700 +VAT each as not uncommon, plus you'll probably need a gas safe to redo pipework on your side of meter and spark to extend wiring and relocate the CU - presumably a fair way to get it out of that kitchen area - but bear in mind there may be a limit in length of meter tails allowed so aim for meter and CU to be close together on either side of the wall.

Apologies for my rubbish drawing - it's a side view, but you should get the idea.

 

[danlightbulb]

If you can't find the one I posted to (it was only a quick search), you could "frame" the new openings in the brickwork to create the required depth, ie turn the last full bricks 90° so they stick out say 50mm and fit 50mm offcuts on the opposing courses.

I think moving costs depend on dno and possible distance but I've heard £700 +VAT each as not uncommon, plus you'll probably need a gas safe to redo pipework on your side of meter and spark to extend wiring and relocate the CU - presumably a fair way to get it out of that kitchen area - but bear in mind there may be a limit in length of meter tails allowed so aim for meter and CU to be close together on either side of the wall.

Apologies for my rubbish drawing - it's a side view, but you should get the idea.

View attachment 374554

I get the idea, thanks. I wonder if it would look a bit weird, to have protruding bricks rather than a simple white frame. It would also be more complex than cutting a neat square hole in the wall.

Would it be a better idea to recess a surface mounted cabinet? This way, the whole cabinet is already one unit with no cutouts. I would just bed it into an opening cut exactly to size and then seal it in with foam adhesive or silicone sealant. If the cut edge is looking a bit rough I could use upvc trim to cover like they do around windows.


Edit - I emailed the company selling the shallow depth box. The response was that they currently can't get hold of them and can't give me a timescale. Also they don't know the actual dimension requirements for the opening. A google search doesn't reveal any other similar ones - I think this could be a product that would never again be available.

Its also no good for gas that I can see, given the gas meter is physically larger.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The surface mounted box for gas is this:

I wonder if that surface mount box, might have a double outer skin, and you could trim the outer skin down, to allow it to be partially recessed?

 

[danlightbulb]

I wonder if that surface mount box, might have a double outer skin, and you could trim the outer skin down, to allow it to be partially recessed?

Possible. I guess I'd have to go examine one to determine.


Do you think there is any compliance standards reason why I couldn't recess a box designed for surface mount? I could pop over and ask on the electrical section if that is better?

From a physical perspective, I can't see why not. The box itself is compliant, what does it matter whether I surface mount or recess it slightly.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Do you think there is any compliance standards reason why I couldn't recess a box designed for surface mount? I could pop over and ask on the electrical section if that is better?

I would ask in both the electrical and the plumbing &CH forums, someone might know. They might even be able offer some suggestions too.

 

[noseall]

Do you think there is any compliance standards reason why I couldn't recess a box designed for surface mount?

Built-in gas boxes have strict egress/ingress rules, in that only dedicated manufactured holes/ducts are to be used. You can't just cobble something up.