Walking down a railway line due to power cut?

[ericmark]

It seems after a massive power cut hit large parts of Spain and Portugal. People walked from the train on the lines. Is this safe? Clearly if train stopped by power cut, must be an electric train.

 

[JBR]

I'm no expert, but I'd have thought that the rails are earthed and the electrical power would be input from lines above, then travel to the motors and then to earth via the rails. If that is the case, it should be perfectly safe, but in any event the power is off anyway what's the problem?

 

[Munroast]

Yeah but, what about the diesels ? or even a real train steam'n down the line at full power!

 

[Koolpc]

I'm no expert, but I'd have thought that the rails are earthed and the electrical power would be input from lines above, then travel to the motors and then to earth via the rails. If that is the case, it should be perfectly safe, but in any event the power is off anyway what's the problem?

You are definitely on the right track!

 

[plugwash]

It seems after a massive power cut hit large parts of Spain and Portugal. People walked from the train on the lines. Is this safe?

Even if electrical hazards and hazards from moving trains are dealt with it's still not an ideal environment for untrained persons without solid footwear. My understanding in the UK is that evacuating to trackside is considered a last resort.

On the other hand, there is only so long passengers will stay on-board a train, particuarly an overcrowded one before they decide to self-evacuate.

Clearly if train stopped by power cut, must be an electric train.

I don't know the procedures in spain, but Ideally, staff would call the signaller (or whatever the equivient is in spain) who would make the line safe. On most signalling systems the train itself will act as a barrier to other trains operating on the same line (but not on adjacent lines).

I would expect in conductor rail areas the signaller would also contact the electrical control room as part of the making safe. I know some trains in third/fourth rail systems in the UK carry shorting bars as a last resort method to kill the power quickly.

 

[JohnW2]

Clearly if train stopped by power cut, must be an electric train.

"Clearly"?

Might a non-electric train have to be stopped in the event of failure of (electrical) signalling and/or 'control' (e.g. 'points') systems ?

 

[big-all]

general comments from an ex train driver from 30 years ago

off course it is never ever safe to walk on tracks unaccompanied
iff detraining is initiated, by the driver/guard /other track safe staff they will make sure all protections are in place before arranging all the measures for safe detraining including setting up ladders
there is zero danger from overhead even if live if you keep below the often applied thin orange line just above door height

if staff become aware off passengers self detraining all trains will be stopped and power will be isolated in the case off 3rd or fourth rail but this action may not be instant and can take many mins after happening as the staff may not notice the people detraining in the chaos in an emergency
the door interlock and and emergency alarm should draw instant attention but only to trained staff

but having said that lots may and will have changed in the last 30 years

 

[plugwash]

Might a non-electric train have to be stopped in the event of failure of (electrical) signalling and/or 'control' (e.g. 'points') systems ?

This is a good point, my understanding is in the UK redundant supplies are arranged for signalling, but if say main power is taken fromt he local DNO, and backup power from a traction supply system then I could see a suffiicently widespread outage taking out both.

 

[ebee]

One would hope that all communication paths to staff and controllers were as "bomb proof" high resilience as humanly possible.
Plus a minimum number of staff required to safely guide all passengers away from any dangerous detraining procedures.
It is a worry in this day and age that any redundancy in staff levels in just about all commercial activity seems to be at an absolute minimum and "unexpected" situations do not seem to attract the level of expectation to manage the situations that might unfold.
Pair that up with the overall state of todays "Smart Phone Zombies" with lemming like qualities and we might be just one step away from disaster at all times anyhow!

I suppose I worry too much.

 

[ericmark]

Our trains carry radios, but they use different transmit and receive frequencies, and work through a repeater, which is not battery backed, and the base sets are also mains operated, so a power outage would mean no radios, and no power to lift/lower crossing barriers, so the train could get to a station, but may not be able to get the length of the line, and would stop running, even when steam powered, except for an emergency.

I know we have one powerful diesel engine, which can rescue a whole train, including the steam engine, but as yet never been needed. But when the road to Welshpool was closed, I know we had a big problem with people walking along the railway line.

 

[JBR]

I believe India still uses steam trains. What a good idea, although I bet there won't be much support here especially from the firemen and possibly also the drivers. I believe there used to be the necessity to get up 'before bedtime' to get the things ready! Nevertheless, there are still a number of traditional steam lines throughout the country.

 

[ericmark]

Nevertheless, there are still a number of traditional steam lines throughout the country.

Yes where I live, anyway now of to volunteer on our local railway, except the vale of rheidol railway, all steam railways in Wales use volunteers. And we have to wear hi-vis, not for drivers to see us, but so the general public will not follow us onto the track. We need to look like workers.

 

[baldykev]

I live in Spain. We lost everything that used or needed power to work even water in some areas due to pumping stations it went on for where I am exactly 24 hours .Hundreds of people trapped in lifts etc so I can see why people started getting of trains and walking ,there was no communication ,we where are, excuse the pun left in the dark as to what had happened and the time scale to be back with power

 

[ebee]

And we thought our recent Heathrow Electrucs problem was bad!
Anyways it shows that a bit more inbuilt resiliance could improve things a bit, even if there is not a war looming?

 

[crystal ball]

I believe India still uses steam trains. What a good idea, although I bet there won't be much support here especially from the firemen and possibly also the drivers. I believe there used to be the necessity to get up 'before bedtime' to get the things ready! Nevertheless, there are still a number of traditional steam lines throughout the country.

Last steam train ran in 2000, only heritage lines have them now, when I first visited in 84 there were lots, traveled from Delhi to Jaipur on a steam hauled sleeper

edit : Steam was in regular use in Zimbabwe, due to the cheap coal. Bulawayo to Vic Falls was often steam hauled in the 90s, mainly tourist trips now I believe