Utility Room electrics for Appliances

[jj4091]

High current loads like, washing machines, must be plugged in to a single socket not a double. Read this.

Warning to anyone with washing machine in kitchen plug sockets | UK | News | Express.co.uk

Anyone who has a washing machine in their kitchen plug sockets has been issued a warning by fire chiefs.

www.express.co.uk

I have had a washing machine and tumble drier plugged into a double socket fed by a 13A FCU for 26 years. Never felt either get hot or blow a fuse even when both on together ( although that is a rare occurence).

 

[Taylortwocities]

I have had a washing machine and tumble drier plugged into a double socket fed by a 13A FCU for 26 years. Never felt either get hot or blow a fuse even when both on together ( although that is a rare occurence).

It’s the two on together that is the issue as TD + WM = more than the specification for the socket

 

[ebee]

High current loads like, washing machines, must be plugged in to a single socket not a double. Read this.

Warning to anyone with washing machine in kitchen plug sockets | UK | News | Express.co.uk

Anyone who has a washing machine in their kitchen plug sockets has been issued a warning by fire chiefs.

www.express.co.uk

Quality made British stuff installed correctly on correct wiring and switchgear is unlikely to be a problem most of the time.
Poor installation of decent makes detracts from that.
There are some "less well made cheap carp about".
Twin sockets to BS are type tested at 14A one side and 6A the other side and must not reach above certain temperatures after a certain time and have no discernible problems such as scorching. Some decent manufactures produce them beyond this BS spec.
The real problem lies with cheapo tat and/or installed badly and/or loaded for excessive time periods or simply overloaded.
The BS socket, twin or single is rated at 13A total even though in practice they can be safe at more. Best not to chance it though.
One way of not exceeding 13A on a socket is only use singles.
Sensible use of twin sockets and what is actually plugged in is nearly as good.
I would advise against buying from the likes of Fleabay or "The Sheds" or unknown makes.

I have had a washing machine and tumble drier plugged into a double socket fed by a 13A FCU for 26 years. Never felt either get hot or blow a fuse even when both on together ( although that is a rare occurence).

Yes indeed but the fact that many people do that for many times over many years does not deem it advisable though.
The risk increases proportionally enough to deem it unwise.
You might drive around for ten years with a car deemed "A death trap" and still survive unscathed but that does not deem it to be safe though, does it?.

 

[jj4091]

It’s the two on together that is the issue as TD + WM = more than the specification for the socket

Do you not think that a decent qualty socket would be capable of carrying a lot more load than the spec. says. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[DJ_DIY]

Lots of interesting replies, thanks for all the input.

but modern practice is to have a dedicated radial, which would be easy for the OP as the CU is so handy

so you wouldn't have a ring in the new kitchen even though there will be lots of sockets under and above the worktops?

My CU is nearly full. 14 way. CU
RCD1
Shower
Bathroom fan heater
Loft
House Lights (up and down as there is a crossed neutral)
Sockets front of house
Immersion
Space for new bottom Oven

RCD2
Shed
Garage Lights
Garage Sockets
House sockets rear
Cooker (to be new hob)
Space for Extension Sockets
Space for Extension Lights

(Somethings got to give as I believe i need another 16A radial for a new top oven [inc microwave]. I'm thinking Immersion could feed from Loft or get another 16A/6A CU exclusively for the garage and monitor the freezer. see below )

One point about an MCB that could be a benefit over an RCBO is we have a freezer in the garage on a radial circuit connected to a 16A MCB.
If the freezer of another appliance in the garage tripped we wouldn't necessary notice until we went into the garage and got wet fet. Currently if the garage sockets have a fault the house sockets/cooker would let me know something is wrong and I'd go into the garage and see what's happened.

 

[jj4091]

Quality made British stuff installed correctly on correct wiring and switchgear is unlikely to be a problem most of the time.
Poor installation of decent makes detracts from that.
There are some "less well made cheap carp about".
Twin sockets to BS are type tested at 14A one side and 6A the other side and must not reach above certain temperatures after a certain time and have no discernible problems such as scorching. Some decent manufactures produce them beyond this BS spec.
The real problem lies with cheapo tat and/or installed badly and/or loaded for excessive time periods or simply overloaded.
The BS socket, twin or single is rated at 13A total even though in practice they can be safe at more. Best not to chance it though.
One way of not exceeding 13A on a socket is only use singles.
Sensible use of twin sockets and what is actually plugged in is nearly as good.
I would advise against buying from the likes of Fleabay or "The Sheds" or unknown makes.

Yes indeed but the fact that many people do that for many times over many years does not deem it advisable though.
The risk increases proportionally enough to deem it unwise.
You might drive around for ten years with a car deemed "A death trap" and still survive unscathed but that does not deem it to be safe though, does it?.

It depends on who does the deeming I would have thought. I have always thought that manufacturers underate their products just to be on the safe side.

 

[EFLImpudence]

What is meant by a dedicated radial?

Surely not a separate circuit just for a single appliance.

 

[ebee]

What is meant by a dedicated radial?

Surely not a separate circuit just for a single appliance.

Well I would say in some circumstances yes and in others no.
The reason for "dedicating" might be to mitigate loss of a freezer or a boiler which could have drastic repercussions in the wrong circumstances.
Or it might be meant purely as a quick isolation method for say all low power kitchen cooking appliances , microwave, small oven, small hob, toaster, george foreman etc.
Larger cooking appliances such as oven and/or hob or an electric shower would normally be on a dedicated circuit most often.
It is a horsey coursey thingy

 

[EFLImpudence]

Exactly, so not necessary for WM and TD (or most things) - just be better with single sockets.

 

[JohnW2]

No you can go along the top 150mm from the ceiling, I don't like it but you can.

I don't have much of a problem with the 150mm zones at the tops of walls (since very few people people would be drilling/nailing/screwing up there), but have definite concerns about the 150mm wide vertical zones at corners between walls - since they would seem to be the very places where things like kitchen wall units are likely to be attached.

 

[JohnW2]

The reason for "dedicating" might be to mitigate loss of a freezer or a boiler which could have drastic repercussions in the wrong circumstances.

Yep, but even that can be somewhat of a two-edged sword ...

.... one way of 'mitigating the drastic repercussions of a freezer losing power' is to make sure that it is NOT on a dedicated circuit but, rather, on a circuit whose failure would be rapidly noticed (e.g. one supplying a TV, internet router or daughter's hair dryer ).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

It’s the two on together that is the issue as TD + WM = more than the specification for the socket

I think you'll find that,these days, even at peak, "TD + WM" is not likely to be much more than 17A or 18A - and, of course, the WM only draws high current for a pretty short period of time.

In any event, despite the debates and arguments, every version of common sense I know says that a socket with two "13A outlets" should be able to ("rated to") safely supply 26A, even if, as some believe, that isn't the case!.

 

[EFLImpudence]

In any event, despite the debates and arguments, every version of common sense I know says that a socket with two "13A outlets" should be able to ("rated to") safely supply 26A, even if, as some believe, that isn't the case!.

Yes, exactly.

Can you imagine the designer of the first 'double' socket being told that it only need cope with, say, 20A - 13A one side and 7A the other but also the other way round?

To daft to contemplate.

 

[ebee]

I don't have much of a problem with the 150mm zones at the tops of walls (since very few people people would be drilling/nailing/screwing up there), but have definite concerns about the 150mm wide vertical zones at corners between walls - since they would seem to be the very places where things like kitchen wall units are likely to be attached.

My dislike is mainly if someone puts coving up they often pin it up until the adhesive sets and that could be right thru a cable or three

 

[ebee]

Yep, but even that can be somewhat of a two-edged sword ...

.... one way of 'mitigating the drastic repercussions of a freezer losing power' is to make sure that it is NOT on a dedicated circuit but, rather, on a circuit whose failure would be rapidly noticed (e.g. one supplying a TV, internet router or daughter's hair dryer ).

Kind Regards, John

Yes unless you are away from home at the time and on returning from your 14 days in the sun you come back to a fridge/freezer full of rotten food and burst pipes flooding the house.
I have know those two scenarios happen to people (not commonly but nonetheless)