Light switch position

[ebee]

I think the uk idea of not opening a door outwards might be so you not forcing it without warning into an oncoming person. Such as some years ago I was running on the pavement and suddenly a car door was opened for me t run into. The car passenger never looked. Ouch ouch ouch. In my home, the front door opens onto my small front garden , little risk someone might be outside of it. However some homes have no front garden and such door would open onto the pavement therefore a risk of deflecting a passer by into the road and under the bus speeding past on the road?

 

[JohnW2]

I think the uk idea of not opening a door outwards might be so you not forcing it without warning into an oncoming person. .... In my home, the front door opens onto my small front garden , little risk someone might be outside of it. However some homes have no front garden and such door would open onto the pavement therefore a risk of deflecting a passer by into the road and under the bus speeding past on the road?

Yes, that's another possibility, but only if one cannot 'see through' the outward-opening door. My front door has a lot of glass, so there would be no such issue.

There is, of course, also a potential security issue with outward-opening doors, in as much as it would theoretically be possible for someone to remove the hinge pins, and hence the door. However, that risk can be addressed (as I have done) by installing 'hinge bolts', which are substantial mental pegs in the hinge side of the door which go into the frame when the door is closed. The fact that they exist, and are widely available, suggests that outward opening outside doors must be fairly common ...

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Yes, that's another possibility, but only if one cannot 'see through' the outward-opening door. My front door has a lot of glass, so there would be no such issue.

There is, of course, also a potential security issue with outward-opening doors, in as much as it would theoretically be possible for someone to remove the hinge pins, and hence the door. However, that risk can be addressed (as I have done) by installing 'hinge bolts', which are substantial mental pegs in the hinge side of the door which go into the frame when the door is closed. The fact that they exist, and are widely available, suggests that outward opening outside doors must be fairly common ...

View attachment 393269

Kind Regards, John

FWIW my inward opening door was fitted with those as standard by the carpenter.

 

[JohnW2]

FWIW my inward opening door was fitted with those as standard by the carpenter.

They really don't achieve much, security-wise, on inward-opening doors. There is then no risk of the hinge pins being taken out (other than by someone trying to 'break out' from inside the house), but hinge blots are really no match for someone who takes a sledge hammer (or the police's equivalent!) to the structure of the door!

Outward opening doors are inherently more 'secure', since to get one has to either destroy the door or destroy some of the frame in order to get it open, whereas with an inward-opening one, it often takes little more than a 'tap' from a sledgehamer near the lock to get it open!

 

[SUNRAY]

They really don't achieve much, security-wise, on inward-opening doors. There is then no risk of the hinge pins being taken out (other than by someone trying to 'break out' from inside the house), but hinge blots are really no match for someone who takes a sledge hammer (or the police's equivalent!) to the structure of the door!

Outward opening doors are inherently more 'secure', since to get one has to either destroy the door or destroy some of the frame in order to get it open, whereas with an inward-opening one, it often takes little more than a 'tap' from a sledgehamer near the lock to get it open!

Yes I agree with all of that, when I built an extention as a workshop/shack/store it was right at the end of the drive and intended to be the rear wall of a carport with a 3ft single door opening outwards for exactly those reasons.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Outward opening doors are inherently more 'secure', since to get one has to either destroy the door or destroy some of the frame in order to get it open, whereas with an inward-opening one, it often takes little more than a 'tap' from a sledgehamer near the lock to get it open!

Perhaps true of older doors, but modern ones are much more secure. Our inward opening ones, by default has built in 'tongues' at the hing side, and a series, of automatic bolts, which shoot out of the lock side, when you lock the doors. The opening windows, have similar 'tongues', and fly out bits.

I do have two outward opening doors, plus an automatic roller door, on my garage/workshop. I deliberately designed them outward opening, to avoid wasted space inside, but they do get wet, when open and it rains.

 

[JohnW2]

Perhaps true of older doors, but modern ones are much more secure. Our inward opening ones, by default has built in 'tongues' at the hing side, and a series, of automatic bolts, which shoot out of the lock side, when you lock the doors. The opening windows, have similar 'tongues', and fly out bits.

Probably true, but it sounds as if you are probably talking about 'orrible plastic doors and windows, rather than 'proper' (wooden) ones

...but, even with them, you don't have to destroy parts of the frame (the 'door stop', which may be separate, and nailed on, or part of the moulding of the jamb) to get the door open (relatively intact) as you would have to do with an outward-opening one.

 

[SUNRAY]

Probably true, but it sounds as if you are probably talking about 'orrible plastic doors and windows, rather than 'proper' (wooden) ones

The extention I mentioned was forbstoring a fairly expensive hire stock, I was very lucky to have aquired a recognised security door from work during building works when a money counting facility (from telephone boxes) was converted to offices and the external door was bricked up. It looked just like a 'Kentucky' hardwood door, however thicker than normal, maybe 2½" thick, and contained a lot of steel, the lock arrangement was along the lines of μPVC doors but more and more substantial catches which hooked onto the frame rather than the flaps on the 'orrible versions. The bolts on the hinge side were extentions of that lock structure, lots of them which passed right across the door. The frame itself was about ¼" thick folded steel. Sadly the limiting factor was the strength of the masonary wall it was bolted into.

 

[JohnW2]

..... It looked just like a 'Kentucky' hardwood door, however thicker than normal, maybe 2½" thick, and contained a lot of steel, the lock arrangement was along the lines of μPVC doors but more and more substantial catches which hooked onto the frame rather than the flaps on the 'orrible versions. The bolts on the hinge side were extentions of that lock structure, lots of them which passed right across the door. The frame itself was about ¼" thick folded steel.

That ain't no 'normal' door or frame

 

[SUNRAY]

That ain't no 'normal' door or frame

No it certainly wasn't but it opened outwards and it had a similar sort of lock arrangement to μPVC doors other than more latches.

 

[JohnW2]

No it certainly wasn't but it opened outwards and it had a similar sort of lock arrangement to μPVC doors other than more latches.

Indeed - and it also would probably have been more-or-less equally 'secure' whether it opened inwards or outwards, wouldn't it?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Probably true, but it sounds as if you are probably talking about 'orrible plastic doors and windows, rather than 'proper' (wooden) ones

Horrible I agree, but very, very practical, windproof, and much more secure.

 

[SUNRAY]

Indeed - and it also would probably have been more-or-less equally 'secure' whether it opened inwards or outwards, wouldn't it?

Oh yes I expect so but as it happens the door was a very last minute fortuitous thing, I'd always planned for a 3ft door and opening outwards for security. My builder (a neighbours son) turned up when he had the odd hour or two to spare which was mostly weekdays after work, originally only to lay the bricks but he suggested rendering and plastering (neither of which were planned) to match the bulk of the house and waited for me to get the roof on and doors in. He'd left an opening for a standard 3ft wooden door and frame.

Quite by chance I went to work in that exchange and parked in the parking area that door opened into, one of the builders helped me load it (complete) into my van on the first day I was there. I had to enlarge each side of the opening by about an inch to accomodate it which was a PITA with a 4½" angle grinder.

 

[SUNRAY]

Horrible I agree, but very, very practical, windproof, and much more secure.

More secure than what?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

More secure than what?

Than a standard timber door.