Soldier F.

[morqthana]

And this:

• "Stevens Inquiry: Key people". BBC News. 17 April 2003. Archived from the original on 14 September 2007.
• "Scandal of Ulster's secret war" Archived at the Wayback Machine, The Guardian,
• "Security forces aided loyalist murders" Archived at the Wayback Machine, BBC News,
• "Obituary: Brian Nelson". The Guardian. London, UK. 17 April 2003. Archived from the original on 18 September 2019.
• Clayton, Pamela (1996). Enemies and Passing Friends: Settler ideologies in twentieth-century Ulster. Pluto Press. p. 156. More recently, the resurgence in loyalist violence that led to their carrying out more killings than republicans from the beginning of 1992 until their ceasefire (a fact widely reported in Northern Ireland) was still described as following 'the IRA's well-tested tactic of trying to usurp the political process by violence' ...
• "Deadly Intelligence: State Involvement in Loyalist Murder in Northern Ireland – Summary" Archived at the Wayback Machine, cain.ulst.ac.uk.
• Human Rights in Northern Ireland: Hearing before the Committee on International Relations of the United States House of Representatives, 24 June 1997. US Government Printing Office, 1997.
• Stevens Enquiry 3: Overview & Recommendations Archived at the Wayback Machine , madden-finucane.com,
• "NI police colluded with killers" Archived at the Wayback Machine. BBC News,
• "Bombshell documentary uncovers Government collusion with loyalist paramilitaries" Archived at the Wayback Machine, Belfast Telegraph,
• David McKittrick. Lost Lives. Mainstream Publishing, 1999. p. 724.
• Stephen Howe, "Killing Fields", New Statesman, 14 February 2000.
• The Cassel Report (2006) Archived 20 February 2015 at the Wayback Machine, p. 68.
• Houses of the Oireachtas, Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights (2003). "The Barron Report" (PDF). Oireachtas. p. 135. Archived (PDF)
• "Loughinisland: Ombudsman confirms collusion between police and loyalist killers" Archived at the Wayback Machine. BBC News,

 

[Vinty]

It had indeed.

At the time the British army was deployed the IRA was no longer engaged in armed activities. The pre-split IRA officially ended its armed campaign in 1962.

The Provisional IRA started up the armed campaign again, after they formed in 1969. A major factor in the split was the reluctance of the IRA to get involved in defending Catholics from "loyalist" violence.

The IRA that was around at the time , was the Official IRA , they were a Marxist type organisation, their political wing was the Workers party.
Their leadership didn't want to get into a sectarian war with Protestants, that caused a split which resulted in the creation of the Provisional IRA , the Provisionals were not interested in socialism or communism.
Their political ideology was more in line with traditional European fascism, and extreme nationalism.
They didn't believe in democracy or the rights of the individual, they believed they didn't need a mandate to start a war because the Unification of Ireland was a constitutional imperative that gave them the authority to kill to achieve there aims.
The top IRA leaders were all regular attenders at Mass, they believed in a United Roman Catholic Ireland, they don't regard non Catholics as ethnic Irish but as outsiders.

 

[morqthana]

The IRA that was around at the time , was the Official IRA

No, it was just the IRA. The split produced the Provisional IRA and the Official IRA.

, they were a Marxist type organisation, their political wing was the Workers party.
Their leadership didn't want to get into a sectarian war with Protestants, that caused a split which resulted in the creation of the Provisional IRA , the Provisionals were not interested in socialism or communism.
Their political ideology was more in line with traditional European fascism, and extreme nationalism.
They didn't believe in democracy or the rights of the individual, they believed they didn't need a mandate to start a war because the Unification of Ireland was a constitutional imperative that gave them the authority to kill to achieve there aims.
The top IRA leaders were all regular attenders at Mass, they believed in a United Roman Catholic Ireland, they don't regard non Catholics as ethnic Irish but as outsiders.

All of which is true.

And none of which means that the Provisional IRA and its campaign of violence pre-dated the deployment of the British army in N.I.

 

[fillyboy]

The IRA that was around at the time , was the Official IRA , they were a Marxist type organisation, their political wing was the Workers party.
Their leadership didn't want to get into a sectarian war with Protestants, that caused a split which resulted in the creation of the Provisional IRA , the Provisionals were not interested in socialism or communism.
Their political ideology was more in line with traditional European fascism, and extreme nationalism.
They didn't believe in democracy or the rights of the individual, they believed they didn't need a mandate to start a war because the Unification of Ireland was a constitutional imperative that gave them the authority to kill to achieve there aims.
The top IRA leaders were all regular attenders at Mass, they believed in a United Roman Catholic Ireland, they don't regard non Catholics as ethnic Irish but as outsiders.

Vinty, my paddystinian chum, a word of advice. You can flog a dead horse till you're blue in the face, it ain't going to get any deader.

 

[morqthana]

As I've said, we'll never know what would have happened if the army had not been needed.

If there hadn't been decades of discrimination against Catholics, if the RUC had not been a sectarian force given to using serious violence against Catholics, if they'd pursued "Loyalist" terrorists with the same vigour that they went after Republican ones instead of colluding with and assisting them, would there have been any support in the IRA to begin a bombing and shooting campaign in the UK in order to re-unite Ireland?

Or would it have remained a talking shop with old men chuntering in pubs about their forebear's heroic actions 100+ years ago, and the younger ones going on about dialectical materialism?

 

[noseall]

You bleat about the paras shooting these terrorists or as you call them “innocent civillians”.

Maybe folk are rightfully concerned about innocent civilians being killed that you call terrorists.

This however is still made up nonsense...

Once you have permission to open fire you have a licence to kill. There is no murder.

 

[Highway Man]

Maybe folk are rightfully concerned about innocent civilians being killed that you call terrorists.

This however is still made up nonsense...

I wouldn’t concern yourself too much about it. We all know what a traitor you are to your country and how you love to go against it and slag off anything we should be proud of rather than standing by it. Joker.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

Exacerbating factors, the primary cause of the famine was the Potato Blight.

"Perfect storm" conditions: The famine was not simply caused by the potato blight, but exacerbated by a combination of factors, including the dependence of the population on potatoes as a staple food, the land ownership structure with high rents and absentee landlords, and the poverty of the tenant farmers

The potato blight caused a loss of their staple diet, i.e. potatoes.
But due to high rents, absentee farmers and continued export of other alternatives to England caused the famine in ireland.

 

[Odds]

The potato blight caused a loss of their staple diet, i.e. potatoes.

No s. Sherlock.

But due to high rents, absentee farmers and continued export of other alternatives to England caused the famine in ireland.

A bold claim, considering the blight spread across Europe.

 

[Odds]

No, it was just the IRA. The split produced the Provisional IRA and the Official IRA.

All of which is true.

And none of which means that the Provisional IRA and its campaign of violence pre-dated the deployment of the British army in N.I.

At the risk of delving too deeep into the history, the IRA were active from the mid-19th century, evolving from the unofficial militia' such as the peep-o-day boys, actively resisting the Protestant hegemony who usurped their land.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

...
N.Ireland is part of the UK.
Look it up.

Only because England colonised Ireland, look it up.

England did colonize Ireland, beginning with the Norman invasion in the 12th century and culminating in full control by the 17th century, a process that fundamentally shaped both nations. This colonial relationship lasted for centuries, officially becoming part of the United Kingdom in 1801, until most of Ireland gained independence in the early 20th century.

England relinquished control of most of Ireland in 1922 with the creation of the Irish Free State after the signing of the Anglo-Irish Treaty in 1921. However, the six counties of Northern Ireland remained a part of the United Kingdom. A fully independent republic was established later in 1949, and the state officially severed all ties with the British monarchy.

England only retained control over NI due to the earlier replacement of the Catholic population with Protestants, a form of ethnic cleansing carried out by the British, mainly during the 17th Century.

England, as part of the UK, retained control over Northern Ireland primarily because of the large and politically powerful Protestant unionist population in the north-eastern counties who wished to remain part of the United Kingdom. The partition of Ireland in 1921 created Northern Ireland as a devolved government within the UK, reflecting this unionist majority which was itself a result of centuries of settlement and a desire for Protestant control. This arrangement was a compromise to end the Irish War of Independence, giving the 26 southern counties independence while the six northern counties remained British.

 

[Highway Man]

Maybe folk are rightfully concerned about innocent civilians being killed

This however is still made up nonsense...

Agreed so stop doing it then.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

What would have happened if the hadn't been there.

We know the history, what actually happened. it's pointless to hypothesise about what might have been.

 

[Highway Man]

We know the history, what actually happened. it's pointless to hypothesise about what might have been.

What is pointless about that? Are you a descendant from royalty?
Count cutout the facts.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

The figures speak for themselves. In N.Ireland 90% of deaths were caused by terrorists.

Nonsense. 60% of deaths were caused by republican militias.
But the majority of civilian deaths were caused by Loyalists.
Here's the figures, not your version of untruths:

More than 3,500 people were killed in the conflict, of whom 52% were civilians, 32% were members of the British security forces, and 16% were members of paramilitary groups.[9] Republic paramilitaries were responsible for 60% of total deaths, followed by loyalist paramilitaries at 30% and security forces at 10%.[39] Loyalists were responsible for 48% of all civilian deaths, however, followed by republicans at 39% and security forces at 10%

The Troubles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...
The British army and the Police
have record to be proud of in N.Ireland.
They saved 1000's of lives by degrading the terrorists operational effectiveness.

They may have lost the plot on occasion and done things they shouldn't but what amazes people was their restraint in the face of almost inhuman provocation from the terrorists.

The colonisation of Ireland by the British caused the conflict, and created the conditions for the continuation of the conflict.