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logical step for Labour is to reverse Brexit

JohnD said:
It was foolish to have such a major constitutional change decided by such a small margin

But if such a small margin was allowed to turn left, it cannot be denied to turn right.

However, the number of surviving Brexers is now very much smaller than 49%

A much more difficult problem would be to persuade the 27 nations that UK is not a barmy timewaster. Expect a very long process and a very long probation.

For now, regaining access to the Single Market is a hard enough ambition. It would be a huge step in repairing the damage to our country that the Brexers caused.
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Those same polls you now believe all predicted that we'd vote Remain in 2016.

People are shy about being rebellious. What they actually believe and may vote for in private may differ from what they tell a pollster. They're rebelling against the state and a noisy bullying minority who dominate most debate.

Surviving Brexiters will have been replaced by new younger ones. It's just how it goes.

Plus a referendum now wouldn't have the fear of change on the side of Remain. We were all told the sky would fall and the world would end if we left. It didn't happen, it was all lies.
 
Ivor Windybottom said:
Those same polls you now believe all predicted that we'd vote Remain in 2016.
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Please show me the polls you say you saw.

The ones I saw said it was close, and as the referendum day drew closer, said it was too close to call.

Which matched the final result. .
 
It's how it always went for the tory party in the past. Older people voted for them but it was an age thing, not generational.

Most people start as wide-eyed believers in all things socialist, e.g. labour and the EU. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone was nice. Share the world, hugs all round. Then, as they mature and become wiser, they see the fatal flaws in it all.

Sadly a tiny minority never get it, or go so far down the path of telling everyone how great it all is that they'd feel really stupid saying they'd decided it was all nonsense.

I remember as a teenager wondering why anyone wouldn't vote labour, as they sounded so nice and fair and caring. Thankfully I grew up.

So don't expect all the brexiteers to die off. They won't.

Another referendum wouldn't be allowed, unless we decide to forever change our minds every 10 years or whatever.
 
If we did have a referendum tomorrow and voted out again, then how long would the lefties wait before demanding another vote?

It's like those horror films where the baddy keeps getting shot but just won't fall over.
 
Ivor Windybottom said:
Nobody (other than you) cares about what the last lot of tories did, they're now irrelevant and won't be returning to power, as the population hates them.

Your version of two-party to and fro is over.

The vast majority are now anti-tory AND anti-labour.
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No

The point is that some are desperate to show that all our troubles are the fault of labour. Some are, of course. But the issues are much deeper and need history to oversee a full view.

Or you can pretend it's irrelevant and say reform will cure everything. The problem though is that is just another swing of the pendulum.

Further issues and chaos, with no light in the tunnel.

Some appear to believe that the tunnel will get shorter by swinging that pendulum. Cos farage says so

Ignore previous history at your peril
 
Undemocratic EU fanboys on here... if you don't get the result you want, then have more votes until you do! Bingo!

Anyone remember this?
The first referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 12 June 2008 was rejected by the Irish electorate, by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%, with a turnout of 53%. The second referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 2 October 2009 and the proposal was approved by 67.1% to 32.9%, with a turnout of 59%.

Between the votes: lots of bullying from other EU countries took place as well as a massive disparity in funding and media pressure and political support focusing and scaremongering for the Yes vote compared to way less resources allocated to the No vote.

Majority voted out in Brexit. Yes it wasnt the result we all wanted but get over it, get on with your lives and adapt and change if needed. I have family from EU and UK. We cope with the airports and channel tunnel. We do business in EU. So we set up a company over there. There are ways and means to get ahead in life. Those that work hard and keep their heads down will prosper (tho its difficult with this poor labour gov) and those who just moan get dragged down.
 
yorksbuilder said:
nyone remember this?
The first referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 12 June 2008 was rejected by the Irish electorate, by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%, with a turnout of 53%. The second referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 2 October 2009 and the proposal was approved by 67.1% to 32.9%, with a turnout of 59%.

Between the votes: lots of bullying from other EU countries took place as well as a massive disparity in funding and media pressure and political support focusing and scaremongering for the Yes vote compared to way less resources allocated to the No vote.
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I note you forget to mention that the Irish electorate voted "No" primarily due to specific anxieties about the treaty's potential impact on sensitive national issues

Irelands rejection halted the entire Treaty process and all the other EU partners had to renegotiate and agreed to provide legally binding guarantees on key concerns.

and so the 2nd referendum was not the same as the first one


So your claim that the EU countries bullied Ireland, when in fact they gave Ireland concessions

yes its true there was a disparity in funding however you fail to mention that the majority of Irish political parties whose MPs had been democratically voted for supported the yes side and so those parties provided more funding
 
yorksbuilder said:
Undemocratic EU fanboys on here... if you don't get the result you want, then have more votes until you do! Bingo!

Anyone remember this?
The first referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 12 June 2008 was rejected by the Irish electorate, by a margin of 53.4% to 46.6%, with a turnout of 53%. The second referendum on the Treaty of Lisbon held on 2 October 2009 and the proposal was approved by 67.1% to 32.9%, with a turnout of 59%.

Between the votes: lots of bullying from other EU countries took place as well as a massive disparity in funding and media pressure and political support focusing and scaremongering for the Yes vote compared to way less resources allocated to the No vote.

Majority voted out in Brexit. Yes it wasnt the result we all wanted but get over it, get on with your lives and adapt and change if needed. I have family from EU and UK. We cope with the airports and channel tunnel. We do business in EU. So we set up a company over there. There are ways and means to get ahead in life. Those that work hard and keep their heads down will prosper (tho its difficult with this poor labour gov) and those who just moan get dragged down.
Click to expand...
Yes , the result was close but it happened.

But it's only fair to have all the benefits pointed out.
 
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