Electric boiler?

[JohnW2]

.... I pay no standing charge to have oil, unlike gas, and I can and do select what rooms to heat and when, doing this with electric would likely mean exceeding the 60 amp supply.

Could you perhaps explain that statement? Thanks.

 

[ericmark]

If I consider the amount of energy required to heat this house, to get that energy in the 5 hours of off-peak, on top of the energy I already use off-peak, that would exceed 60 amps.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Indeed, and it has always been my personal belief that the taking of baths is probably the major problem. It is that alone which creates the need for storage of relatively large amounts of hot water - so, other than when, very occasionally, there is some legitimate ('medical') reason, the taking of baths would seem to be an unnecessary waste of both water and energy (and the costs of both) ... not to mention the fact that taking baths can be argued to be questionable in terms of 'hygiene'.

I see them very much as comfort, luxury. I used to take maybe one bath per week, and the other days a quick shower. More recently, I have improved my comfort, with a bath every other day. What I do notice is - after a hot bath, I can turn the heating down some, because I feel generally warmer, so there is an alternative saving to be had there.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That's a very 'dramatised' statement! For very many decades, all gas-burning appliances had to be satisfied with an 'open flue', if any flue at all!

I remember some sort of gas water heater, maybe an Ascot, which had a sort of open funnel flue installed above it. So it was a matter of luck, if combustion gases, went up the flue.

 

[JohnW2]

If I consider the amount of energy required to heat this house, to get that energy in the 5 hours of off-peak, on top of the energy I already use off-peak, that would exceed 60 amps.

Oh, fair enough. However, that's peculiar to your situation/wishes, in that you would want to import an entire day's electricity in just 5 hours - so not surprising that that would result in a very high 'peak demand'.

 

[JohnW2]

I remember some sort of gas water heater, maybe an Ascot, which had a sort of open funnel flue installed above it. So it was a matter of luck, if combustion gases, went up the flue.

Indeed, but I don't recall people 'dropping like flies', do you?

For decades (and still to some extent), the great majority of houses had gas ovens and hobs, with no attempt to 'manage' the products of combustion.

 

[JohnW2]

I see them very much as comfort, luxury. I used to take maybe one bath per week, and the other days a quick shower. More recently, I have improved my comfort, with a bath every other day.

Exactly, it's a luxury which, if one wants to enjoy it, one has to be prepared to 'pay for'. It's obviously very much a personal thing, probably largely based on habit/upbringing. For the past 50 or so years, I've never lived in a house without a bath, but I'm not at all sure that I've ever taken a bath in my house during that period (just occasionally in a hotel, as a 'novelty').

The whole concept of storing hot water is seemingly somewhat 'undesirable' (both financially and environmentally) - since, no matter how well insulated is the cylinder, there will inevitably be some heat losses, resulting in 'wastage' of both energy and money for probably about half of the year - and, if it weren't for the desire for those baths (once per day, week or whatever), there would be no apparent need for such storage..

What I do notice is - after a hot bath, I can turn the heating down some, because I feel generally warmer, so there is an alternative saving to be had there.

That's interesting. I've quite often heard those who take baths saying the opposite - that they tend to feel quite cold after getting out of a hot bath. "Vive la difference", I suppose!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Indeed, but I don't recall people 'dropping like flies', do you?

Well, now you mention it, me. I once suffered from carbon monoxide poisoning, from a faulty heating appliance. I was ill for many days after.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That's interesting. I've quite often heard those who take baths saying the opposite - that they tend to feel quite cold after getting out of a hot bath. "Vive la difference", I suppose!

It seems sensible to me. You soak in a hot bath, your body, is heated by the hotter than you water, so you have a surplus of heat. I find the same, on rising from bed, I have the heating set at a higher temperature, from 10am, to allow for me still being warm from getting out of a warm bed.

 

[ericmark]

A thought-provoking idea, having a bath to feel warm. I do have two baths in the house, I did try the upper bath when we first moved in, not sure today if I could get out again. The lower bath has my wife's e-bike in it, never used. Daughter uses lower shower, we use middle floor shower.

My bedroom is cooler than the living room, at moment 18°C in bedroom and 20.5°C in living room, come the evening and I want it warmer, yet in the summer at 17°C I will go outside in shorts.

In the 70s there was a lot of talk about storing heat, can't remember the substance used, but used the latent heat it could release.

 

[JohnW2]

Well, now you mention it, me. I once suffered from carbon monoxide poisoning, from a faulty heating appliance. I was ill for many days after.

Fair enough, but it never was common and, in any event, you're talking about a "faulty heating appliance", whereas I was thinking of "in normal service" (nothing "faulty").

Furthermore, carbon monoxide is mainly going to show its face in the absence of inadequate ventilation (oxygen supply), since it is very flammable (is/was a significant component of coal gas) and, given an adequate oxygen supply, should burn (creating carbon dioxide). Hence, in the presence of adequate ventilation, the 'products of combustion' should not contain much carbon monoxide, even if the 'exit route' for those products is in some way blocked/impaired.

 

[JohnW2]

It seems sensible to me. You soak in a hot bath, your body, is heated by the hotter than you water, so you have a surplus of heat. I find the same, on rising from bed, I have the heating set at a higher temperature, from 10am, to allow for me still being warm from getting out of a warm bed.

As I said, I have virtually no personal experience to draw on, so I can only mention what I've heard from others.

However, in general, one's perception of the temperature of ones's surroundings relates primarily to the difference between the temp of those surroundings and the temp of the surface of one's body. If one has just got out of a hot bath, the latter will be relatively high, so I would have expected that to make the surroundings 'feel cooler' than if one hadn't just got out of a hot bath.

 

[ericmark]

Blood will absorb carbon monoxide rather than oxygen, which is why it is so dangerous.

 

[JohnW2]

A thought-provoking idea, having a bath to feel warm. I do have two baths in the house, I did try the upper bath when we first moved in, not sure today if I could get out again. The lower bath has my wife's e-bike in it, never used. Daughter uses lower shower, we use middle floor shower.

There are five baths in my house, but I can't remember when any of them was last used (and certainly not by me ).

In the 70s there was a lot of talk about storing heat, can't remember the substance used, but used the latent heat it could release.

Storage of heat is obviously 'best' with materials/substances of high thermal capacity. However, I think you'll find that water has one of the highest thermal capacities and, off the top of my head, I'm not aware of any liquid or solid substances with a higher thermal capacity.

 

[JohnW2]

Blood will absorb carbon monoxide rather than oxygen, which is why it is so dangerous.

Indeed. It combines irreversibly with haemoglobin, preventing that from fulfilling its normal role of transporting oxygen, 'reversibly' combining with oxgen in the lungs and then releasing it in the body tissues.

However, as I just wrote, very little carbon monoxide should be produced by any combustion if there is an adequate supply of oxygen (adequate ventilation).