Kitchen light suggestions

[ I presume you mean Sunray? ]
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Thanks - but two of those 6 ft twins would surely be way OTT, wouldn't it? They would add up to 130 W and 15,600 lumens, which sounds an awful lot for a room which is currently 'reasonably adequately illuminated' with 17 W and 2,300 lumens :-)
Be it a garage or kitchen, I like workspaces to be very brightly lit. Then there's less chance of an accident. Cutting yourself, etc...
My current thought is to go with two 4ft or 5ft singles - in-line down the middle. That would still be a fair bit in comparison with 17W/2,300 lumens (44 w, 5,200 lumens for 2 x 4ft, 60 W, 7,200 lumens for 2 x 5ft), but seemingly more sensible than two 6 ft ones?
As mentioned, I would rather over-engineer the lumen calculation for such a room and have the room brighter.
 
I've a lowish wattage light on a pir towards the side where kettle and sink are

This is perfect for all the times people are in and out making a cup of tea or similar

Another brighter main light then for actual working in the kitchen
Darn good idea, not that I need them now, as lights are on voice control, I found going into any room, turning the main light on, and then lights near something we are working with be it under counter lights, up-lighters, cabinet display lights, it does not matter. But when one leaves a room and turns off the main light, to then have to go around the room turning off all the various lights, that annoys me.

Also, we feed cats in the kitchen, I am sure they can see food in the dark, but it seems wrong to turn off lights when they are eating.
That might have made some sense for the cost-conscious in the days of old. However, the running cost of LEDs are so trivial that I'm not sure it is any longer particularly relevant/necessary.
Not sure running costs have changed that much. Old house kitchen had two fluorescent lamps, arranged as a T on the ceiling, one 65 watt (latter 58 watt) the other shorter, can't remember wattage. Son bought the house where the 65 watt lamp was, there are now down lights, around 14, x likely 4 watt = 56 watts, so really very little change.

This living room, single 150 watt pendent lamp to one side of the room, not a clue why not central, I replaced with an 8 bulb chandelier with 6 watt bulbs, as a 12 watt LED looked more like a tocH candle. So still 48 watt, and we also have cabinet lights 54 watt in total although normally used dimmed, and pedestal lights both down and up light types, one up-lighter has a bulb with wings, rated 36 watts LED.

So as I look around the house, we have a lot more light, to the original, likely due to our presbyterian eyes, as we get older we seem to need more light.

Bedroom in old house, three gang two-way switch at door, a two gang intermediate one side of bed, and two gang two-way other side of bed, With centre light, and two bedside GU10 reading lamps, and I was proud of the set-up.

Wife moved into dinning room as bedroom after an operation, as could not climb the stairs, and I fitted a smart switch and magnetic button for lights, abandoned the button and re-used as a bell push, as she used voice commands with the Nest Mini speaker (Similar to Alexa).

The problem is remembering names given. I can turn on just the light for the sink, or whole kitchen, but I look at back-ground power use, and it is creeping up.

Now 356 watts, evening seems to go to around 550 watts, how much is freezers and fridges, how much it lights, how much is fans, how much is stand-by, how much TV, not a clue.

When the solar panels are producing 500 watt even at 8 am, why should I worry? The evening is the biggest drain, but this time of year still have 50% battery left when off-peak starts.

But Winter when lights used more, yes I do run out of battery, and so our first yearly total with feed in payments was around £300 for the year, so not net-zero, electric still costs. Although not much.

I have seen 39 kWh in a day, but by time one runs the AC as so darn hot, consumption up to 15.4 kWh, so yes we still turn off lights when we leave a room. And outside lights no longer on PIR control, mainly as they would switch off at inappropriate moments. Getting old, I don't move fast enough.

But last house, we had display cabinet lights, don't think ever used, looked good, but we just would not get around to switching them on.

Even this house, counter top lights are colour changing, why, I always use them set to white. Used really as the Lidi strip light was wipe clean, not because the colours changed.

The only light we really need to dim, is the outside light, as if too bright, the cars reversing camera and lights don't work as well. It is about the only light we really want colour changing, we set it to green at Halloween to show we have sweets for the kids.
 
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Be it a garage or kitchen, I like workspaces to be very brightly lit. Then there's less chance of an accident. Cutting yourself, etc...

As mentioned, I would rather over-engineer the lumen calculation for such a room and have the room brighter.
You could perform brain surgery in kitchen with your suggested lighting :giggle:
 
Neither, but what does that matter - do customers and house-owners (who are presumably also customers at times) require different levels of lighting?

If it’s for a customer then I’d discuss the pros and cons of different solutions.

And under cupboard lighting always gets a mention, as would a pendent type light if there is a peninsula or island
 
Very good point above discuss options and see what they think
I wasn’t clear on this, mostly as I don’t read threads :giggle:

Was it his own place or someone else’s
 
Sorry, I was a little confused. When you wrote "the second option rocky posted" I though you were referring to the ones posted relatively recently (in post #24) by Sunray, but I now see that you are presumably referring to what rocky posted way back in post #7.

"Rocky's (actual!) 'second' one is a 45W 5' double which claims 4,790 lumens - so a pair of those would be 90 W/9,580 lumens - that's significantly less than flameportt/Sunray's (130 W/15,600 lumens) but still an awful lot of Watts and lumens (given that 17 W 2.300 lumens results in reasonable lighting!)
Be it a garage or kitchen, I like workspaces to be very brightly lit. Then there's less chance of an accident. Cutting yourself, etc...
Lighting which is 'too bright' can also result in accidents, and can be unpleasant. My view is that a 'happy medium' is required.
As mentioned, I would rather over-engineer the lumen calculation for such a room and have the room brighter.
Fair enough. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it really does sound like a lot go me. Forget the lumens if you like and just look at the Watts. I have a good few (reasonable size) rooms in my house which are satisfactorily lit (at least to my satisfaction!) with a single 12W LED pendant. To have a total of 90 W or 130 W of LEDs in one room would be equivalent to having between 7.5 and 11 such pendants dangling from the ceiling!

I ideally need too try to find a way to 'view' some of the scenarios we are discussing!
 
If it’s for a customer then I’d discuss the pros and cons of different solutions.
As I said, it's not for 'a customer'.

The person with whom there should be "discussion about the pros and cons of different solutions" is the person who is going to have to decide between those different solutions. In this case, that person is me, which is why I have asked for advice about the various options.
And under cupboard lighting always gets a mention, as would a pendent type light if there is a peninsula or island
As I've already said, few if any wall cupboards and almost certainly no peninsular or island.
Downlighters also very often "get a mention", but you will note that I have not mentioned them :-)
 
Very good point above discuss options and see what they think
I am the relevant "they", which is why I have asked people to "discuss options" with me!
I wasn’t clear on this, mostly as I don’t read threads :giggle:
That can be a little irritating to others, since it often means that they have to repeat things they've previously written, just because you can't be bothered to read for yourself. Also, if one contributes to a thread without reading it all, it's often possible to get hold of the totally wrong ends of all sorts of sticks :-)
Was it his own place or someone else’s
I own it.
 
As I`ve retired I`m a bit out of it but I had noted LED v Fluoro v Filament was different in effect , OK we had been accustomed to filament since the year dot and nearly as much the fluoros too but thse new fangled LEDs were still taking some getting used to because you could not go off lumens alone for comparisons and no matter you worked out and which way it`s one thing to get it planned on paper but something else to see what it looks like in each particular situation, so called "AI" should in theory nowadays give us a few more clues but I still reckon that there is still of the "suck it and see" situation in many instances.
I`m not suggesting that it might take 100 years to get as familiar with LED as we did with the older established technologies of yesteryear but I think there still a way to go yet.
Hence the opening question I suppose.
 
.... thse new fangled LEDs were still taking some getting used to because you could not go off lumens alone for comparisons and no matter you worked out and which way it`s one thing to get it planned on paper but something else to see what it looks like in each particular situatio .... I still reckon that there is still of the "suck it and see" situation in many instances. .... but I think there still a way to go yet.
Quite so.
Hence the opening question I suppose.
Exactly - as you say, the very reason I asked the question. There must be countless people out there who have far far more experience than I do as to how different configurations of different types of LED lights perform in different situations, so I was hoping that they would be able to share some of that experience with me! Suggesting that I should discuss the pros and cons with 'the customer' (effectively myself in this situation) is not all that useful :-)
 
The person with whom there should be "discussion about the pros and cons of different solutions" is the person who is going to have to decide between those different solutions. In this case, that person is me, which is why I have asked for advice about the various options.
And my advice in such a room is stolidly to use a linear fitting to reduce the shadows and of adequate power/light level.
My kitchen is 3m x 6m and I have a row of three 5ft fluo's above a row of clear prismatic drop in ceiling tiles, without the tiles I'd have probably only used 2 fittings. Some will say 2 or 3 such fittings is too much for a room of this size is too much, however I believe it is appropriate.

Until recently I have found LED equivalents are far from equivalent, however as mentioned earlier I'm starting to find: A) Performance of LED lighting is improving and B) many 'equivalent fittings' are now using increased power (which I can only take as acceptance that my opinions and experiences are wider spread than many on this forum seem to accept) - Accordingly I'll happily accept that the 5ft fitting in Flames link are now of an acceptable standard.
I'm aware of a location where Fluos were replaced with very slim fittings - of almost identical power - which caused lots of problems which have now been successfully been replaced with the above or something similar of a slightly lesser power.

I'm not convinced that life expectancy/expense is what it should be yet though.
Suggesting that I should discuss the pros and cons with 'the customer' (effectively myself in this situation) is not all that useful :-)
However you have been rather cryptic in that regard. It would have been far more descriptive to mention something to the effect of: " I have to install a light in a room of XYZ in my rental property..." subject matter only chosen to reflect my own circumstances. In which case advice would have been offered to that end.
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and, as also also said, think that 60 W of (any sort of) LED lighting sounds an awful lot for one 'normal' room?
15m², 7200 lumens, assuming all the light ends up on the floor is 480 lux, hardly excessive for a kitchen.
In reality probably more like 400 lux due to losses incurred by walls etc.

an awful lot more than the 17 W / 2,300 lumens I have at present, which is more-or-less adequate.
'adequate' is subjective.

The 60 W one flameport linked to was 5 ft, but I image probably "2 x 30W" (it's fairly 'wide')
It's just 60W. There are no 'tubes' inside, it's just a linear LED flat panel and an electronic driver.

There is no physical difference in dimensions between the 'single' and 'twin' variants, they are all 60mm wide.
They are only labelled like that to give a loose comparison to old single/double fluorescent tube fittings.
 
"Rocky's (actual!) 'second' one is a 45W 5' double which claims 4,790 lumens - so a pair of those would be 90 W/9,580 lumens - that's significantly less than flameportt/Sunray's (130 W/15,600 lumens) but still an awful lot of Watts and lumens (given that 17 W 2.300 lumens results in reasonable lighting!)
It was more to show the style, I personally think battens look to commercial.
Have you considered dali dimmable, and set it to your requirements
 
And my advice in such a room is stolidly to use a linear fitting to reduce the shadows and of adequate power/light level. .... My kitchen is 3m x 6m and I have a row of three 5ft fluo's above a row of clear prismatic drop in ceiling tiles, without the tiles I'd have probably only used 2 fittings.
As I said early on, my current thinking is to go with 2 x 5' ('single') LED tubes, or maybe the rough equivalent in LED 'panels', and I invited comments about that.
Some will say 2 or 3 such fittings is too much for a room of this size is too much, however I believe it is appropriate.
That's why I've been asking for advice. Two 5' LED tubes, like the 17W, 2,300 lumen one I'm currently using wouldn't seem unreasonable, at double what I'm presently experiencing (i.e. 34W, 4,600 lumens). However, I'm less sure about flamport's 5ft one (which seemingly doesn't use 'tubes'), which uses about 60% more power and produces about 75% more light than that. As I keep saying, 60W worth of LEDs of any type to light just one largish room sounds like an awful lot to me! Flameport seems to think it's reasonable for a kitchen, so I can but presume that he would consider what I'm currently experiencing with only about one-third of that light output as being 'pitifully inadequate'? Would you agree with that?
However you have been rather cryptic in that regard. It would have been far more descriptive to mention something to the effect of: " I have to install a light in a room of XYZ in my rental property..." subject matter only chosen to reflect my own circumstances. In which case advice would have been offered to that end.
I wasn't being deliberately 'cryptic', but it didn't occur to me that it was remotely relevant - the ideal lighting for a kitchen (hence what there is to discuss, and what advice will be given) surely does not differ according to whether the occupier of the property is an owner, tenant or 'customer', does it?

Anyway, there's certainly no secrets. We're talking about a house I've inherited that I've often mentioned here, it having been 'in my family' for about 130 years, ever since my great-grandfather was the first occupant. However, I cannot 'categorise' it in the way you suggest, other than to say that I will almost certainly never live in it and that it has got nothing to do with any 'customer' (both of which things I have already said).

However, I am undecided as to the 'fate' of the house - it may come to be occupied by a family member, it may come to be occupied by a tenant or it may be sold - or it may even come to be passed on to someone else before I have had a chance to make the decision :-) There was already a lot of uncertainty in my mind but in view of current happenings, the decision may now come to be markedly influenced by how politics evolve, particularly as regards taxation and any 'renting legislation'.
 
15m², 7200 lumens, assuming all the light ends up on the floor is 480 lux, hardly excessive for a kitchen.
I have no idea, which is why I'm asking for advice. However you are talking about more than 3 times the light (lumens or lux) that I'm currently experiencing, and that is very far from being 'unusable'
'adequate' is subjective.
Of course it is - and what level of lighting one likes in a room must be high up on the lists of 'the most subjective things'!
It's just 60W. There are no 'tubes' inside, it's just a linear LED flat panel and an electronic driver. ... There is no physical difference in dimensions between the 'single' and 'twin' variants, they are all 60mm wide.
Fair enough - I was merely echoing the product descriptions in what you linked to. However, as I keep saying "just60W" sounds/feels like an awful lot of LED lighting for one room.
 

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