J.C.M(the Brazilian)

[grrinc]

The odd mistake would imply that most of the time they get it right. Exactly how many genuine Islamic fundamentalist terrorists have the police shot dead in the last ten years? Oh there was that one they shot by mistake last year (oh no, it was the gloves that shot him ), but he was found not guilty of anything at all.

So I ask again Joe, how many times have firearms officers got it right, and shot dead a terrorist about to commit mass murder?

The shot for shot comparison doesnt hold up. You have to ask how many suspected terrorists have been rounded up. And the services are doing very well - although it will never be well enough. And dont forget, they have to be pretty damned close to doing a terrorist act before they are rounded up - otherwise the 'human rights' kick in. To me, the mistake was misidentification - everything else was procedure.

 

[megawatt]

What I've been trying to tell certain individuals for (what seems like) months

 

[joe-90]

What I've been trying to tell certain individuals for (what seems like) months

Nobody is doubting that 'misidentification' was a mistake. What matters is that the is no way of getting a POSITIVE identification (unless megawatt has developed some previously unknown technology).

Take a look at this link and tell me if you think that mistaken identity can never happen.

A mother couldn't even identify her own son. Neither could a care worker that had been with him for 6 months.

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/d...tentPK=18891384&folderPk=78486&pNodeId=133951

 

[Softus]

That server doesn't seem to be in a healthy state.

 

[joe-90]

Here's clip from it:

"A Man thought dead by his mother in a case of mistaken identity has now been jailed for 30 days.

Gina Partington, 58, from Urmston, Manchester, spent almost an hour saying a tearful goodbye to the body she thought was that of her son, Thomas Dennison, before a cremation last Tuesday.

But the next day the police telephoned to say that the 39-year-old had been arrested after being caught begging on Exchange Walk in Nottingham.

The body was initially identified as Dennison by a care worker who had worked with him for the past six months.

His mother then went to the chapel of rest at Manchester Royal Infirmary to confirm that the body was that of her son."

 

[Deluks]

Maybe she hadn't seen him for a while. If they had a good relationship why was he out begging?

Anyway the police didn't know this bloke at all (JCM) they didn't have anything to go on. So without a positive ID they shot him anyway, 'just in case'

 

[Gasguru]

I can understand that if a person is suspected of carrying explosives and was about to detonate them, an armed officer ( police or other official body) would be within the law to shoot that person( in the head if necessary )to stop them as quickly as possible. What I cannot understand is why it would take FIVE bullets to the head to stop that person, especially when there were members of the public in the vicinity.

Dennis

As admitted at the hearing hollow point bullets (dum dums) were used for the first time to incapacitate a suspect. Although this particular type of bullet is available in several forms it appears the type used on this occasion was designed in such a way to prevent breakout after entry by splintering on impact. This results in considerably reduced chance of unintentional injury (or death) to the surrounding public or police officers.

On a typical crowded train or public space this is of utmost priority. It is also well known that police ammunition rounds are of reduced charge. This further reduces the chance of rounds passing through the target to become a hazard to bystanders either directly or through ricochet.

Hence (IMHO) the requirement for several discharges of a police weapon in order to guarantee the target is "brought down". Unfortunately the downside being the public and press outrage at the "excessive" (but necessary) shots required.

Alternativly the police might consider a Barrett with 1/2 inch rounds, with an 1800m range it would certainly kill with a single round but the resulting ricochet around the carriage would also take out half the occupants.

 

[megawatt]

Joe-90 Wrote:

Nobody is doubting that 'misidentification' was a mistake. What matters is that the is no way of getting a POSITIVE identification (unless megawatt has developed some previously unknown technology).

You really are quite obtuse ... What is the point of taking part in these forums if you resolutely refuse to take any notice of what others are posting and simply post the same tired old statements.

I will attempt one final time to explain this to you and then I'm done as I would agree with others that you are being deliberately obstructive.

Hypothetical scenario: The intelligence services receive information that individuals are planning a terrorist attack and are manufacturing explosives prior to a suicide bombing.
They then mount a surveillance operation to identify all the individuals and build a case.
Once they have hard facts that the intelligence is correct they keep track of all of the individuals involved in an attempt to catch as many as possible with as much incriminating evidence as possible.
Now, pay attention to the underlined bit ... They have clearly identified the targets as they have observed them participating in terrorist activities and they do not lose sight of them again until the operation goes ahead.
This is good intelligence which is happening all the time and has been for decades.

Where is the positive identification issue here?

Only problem with the JCdM case is that they didn't carry out the above with the necessary rigour.

MW

 

[joe-90]

Don't get personal Megawatt.

The person they shot was a person they thought was someone else. Gedditt yet? They identified the wrong guy - just like the Mum that spent an hour with the body of someone she thought was her own son. (and still got it wrong)
Why can't you see that cases of mistaken identity will ALWAYS happen - no matter who identifies the suspect, there will be times when they GET IT WRONG!

 

[tim west]

That is why it is so important to get it right then as anyone yourself included could become the next victim of mistaken identity and be shot dead! thats whats so frightening and extremely disturbing.

 

[DennisLS]

May I at this juncture make a public apology to Thermo I now know where he is coming from.
Dennis

 

[joe-90]

That is why it is so important to get it right then as anyone yourself included could become the next victim of mistaken identity and be shot dead! thats whats so frightening and extremely disturbing.

But if a mother can't recognise a son - then what do you suggest?

 

[tim west]

dunno joe? but its not up to me, i'm just worried that it will happen again soon

 

[joe-90]

It will always happen, but if the Police dither too long deciding who is who then they may was well go home.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

This thread's like Groundhog day.