general query for CH engineers - not a techy one!

[matz]

as a complete central heating layman, I've been arguing at work today about parts charging policies for boiler repairs (combis)

If an engineer diagnoses a fault and orders the relevant part, fits it and that part turns out not to be faulty, does he take out that part, and get his money back from the supplier then move on to the next part and do the same thing and so on, until the faults fixed?

Or, does every job get diagnosed right first time?

I've read so many times, of consumers paying for a PCB board, then for this then for that until finally the fault is located.

Who pays for not needed parts - the engineer or the customer?

 

[ChrisR]

Question:
Say your car doesn't start reliably and the plugs are old, and they're changed, and the car seems to be ok, but only until the next day. Do you expect your money back? Intermittent faults are just like that.

Usually a boiler-stopping fault can be isolated by a competent engineer quite quickly, but not always. Often several things are old, not as good as new, and could be contributors.

Suppliers never take used parts back.
Even if they did, if you put those spark plugs in and they didn't help so you took them out again, you'd have to be paid for the work.

 

[matz]

well, that was I was telling them yesterday! But I got told in no uncertain terms, if part not faulty, you don't pay.

 

[chrishutt]

ChrisR makes good points, but overlooks the fact that there are some so called engineers who are little more than parts changers, whose approach to boiler repairs is to do little in the way of diagnosis and merely to start changing parts until they finally hit upon the faulty component (or not).

Given the inflated prices of spares this approach can rapidly run up an enormous bill for the customer, who may end up paying for a lot of parts that are not required. But the customer has no way of knowing if that is what has happened, unless they keep all the discarded parts and later arrange for these to be tested (by substitution with the replacement parts).

On the other hand there are also many good boiler engineers who use their considerable experience and judgement, and a fair degree of logical analysis, to diagnose the cause of the problem and aim to replace only those parts genuinely required. However they are not infallible and not all faults are easily identified, so there are always going to be times when parts are replaced unnecessarily.

Clearly the customer needs to be able to differentiate between the boiler engineers and the parts-changers, but there is no qualification or registration available to demonstrate competence in boiler engineering. £orgi registration means nothing in this context since it requires only a rudimentary understanding of the more basis gas safety issues.

 

[matz]

not fair on the customer really that they're at the mercy of someone who may be good or maybe not but has no way of knowing. Reason I ask, is that an engineer diagnosed a failed fan on my boiler and the fan turned out to be ok. In the event, I founf this out before buying a new one so I'm ok there. But, I've got another firm coming out tomorrow at £70 for 45 minutes and I shall be well hacked off if I get another misdiagnosis especially that now I know I'm going to be charged for parts whatever - lets hope they're not parts changers then!

 

[chrishutt]

I've got another firm coming out tomorrow at £70 for 45 minutes

Blimey, that's £100 an hour! You been looking in Yellow Pages (don't!)? Can't you find anyone even slightly reasonable? I don't know where you are in the UK but I would have thought something around half that rate would be realistic. Sounds like you're setting yourself up to be ripped off.

 

[namsag]

Or why not use this site for the purpose for which it has set up for and give us make model and a good description of the fault and someone may be able to help you

 

[Nige F]

Engineers/parts changers, they all have to be Corgi......irrespective of how quick they got there, and how much hands on they got before they registered .....and let`s face it would you rather stand in front of a boiler and earn maybe £25kplus . a year...........or graft and struggle doing old school plumbing for £20k In case you all wonder why I didn`t do corgi after plumbing since 1970....I`ve got no sense of smell and I`m not going near gas like that .....In the OP`s case, why not just sign up with B.Gas for service /repair

 

[ChrisR]

not fair on the customer really that they're at the mercy of someone who may be good or maybe not

WHy on earth not? Life's not fair!
You can get bad doctors, bad mechanics, bad lawyers, bad anything. Caveat Emptor.
People somehow expect extra rights when they have their boiler mended ! You need to sort out the contract with the repairer before you start. If you said you'd only pay for the LAST part which fixes your old bag-of-bones boiler 100%, nobody would touch it.

You have a choice, you can go to the manufacturer. On average they'll cost you more, at around typically £200 - £220. Though they will fix it, any different faults afterwards aren't necessarily covered, and there are exclusions, etc. Vaillant charge £300 for a fix + 1 year's cover.

 

[Nige F]

Well Said too many watching Rogue Traders and Property Ladder

 

[matz]

not fair on the customer really that they're at the mercy of someone who may be good or maybe not

WHy on earth not? Life's not fair!
You can get bad doctors, bad mechanics, bad lawyers, bad anything. Caveat Emptor.
People somehow expect extra rights when they have their boiler mended ! You need to sort out the contract with the repairer before you start. If you said you'd only pay for the LAST part which fixes your old bag-of-bones boiler 100%, nobody would touch it.

You have a choice, you can go to the manufacturer. On average they'll cost you more, at around typically £200 - £220. Though they will fix it, any different faults afterwards aren't necessarily covered, and there are exclusions, etc. Vaillant charge £300 for a fix + 1 year's cover.

Charming. All I want is someone who knows what they're doing - thats not extra rights! If I do a job thats not right I don't get paid. Of course, theres bodgers in every trade and yes caveat emptor which is why I'm posting here and why I got the people in I did for tomorrow. btw I asked Baxi to come out but they refused saying it was in a workshop and not in a house. btw btw, I did post a query on this boiler but had hardly a reply (not that I'm moaning, I don't have an expectation from posting on a forum as I know people give their time for free and I'm grateful for anything that results however small.

 

[Nige F]

:.....In the OP`s case, why not just sign up with B.Gas for service /repair

 

[namsag]

Matz no wonder you didn`t get much feed back on your fault.
The people on here are not mind readers if you think "i have a baxi fan flue combi" we can geuss which boiler it is from that you are mistaken.
In the past 7 years baxi have sold probably about 15/20 different models designed and made by 3 different companies. If you are as vague as this describing your fault to whoever comes to it`s no wonder people diagnos wrong

 

[matz]

fair comment namsag I don't know how that one slipped through, I try always to give good info. A Baxi 80ECO if anyones watching but anyway, I'll see what tomorrow brings now. Thamks for all the replies.

 

[Gasguru]

The boiler is turned off for much of the year - combis are not designed for that. I'm amazed the pump actually runs at all. You also mentioned the boiler is damp inside, again its designed for an internal domestic environment. Also its running on LPG, its hard enough finding good engineers on Natural gas let alone LPG.


I assume you have checked the overheat thermostat button is pressed in? (Its on the left hand pipe inside).

Since the pump could be partially siezed from being off for so long have you checked the pump flow differential switch is activated? It wouldn't surprise me if the air pressure switch contact resistance is high from corrosion. The diverter could also be partially siezed. Fans are very easily tested.

When you do get it running leave it switched on and run it on heating and hot water at least once a week.