Is it worth changing this consumer unit?

EFLImpudence · 5 Jul 2020

oldbutnotdead said:
There's a lot of discussion about the new (in England) requirement for EICR for rented properties. Apparently the legislation is worded to require that electrical installations must comply with current regulations rather than complying with whatever was current at the time of installation/modification.

It is highly unlikely that that is what they meant.

If it IS then a huge amount of work will be required and a lot of properties will be off the market for some time.

So in theory a rental would only pass an EICR today if a metal-clad CU was fitted (and everything else complied with 18th edition).

Not exactly, that is the case for all EICRs but it does not constitute a "fail" (if that is the word you want to use) as far as the EICR is concerned.

It will mean that the property is 'satisfactory' (if it "passes") although items may not be to the 18th requirements.

Whether this will prohibit letting remains to be seen. Obviously it should not.

oldbutnotdead · 5 Jul 2020

Yerse. Current opinion is that the legislation has been sloppily written and there was no intention to require rentals to be rewired every 5 years but merely to ensure that they are safe to live in. It may end up with a test case being brought, hope I don't end up being the guinea pig

JohnD · 5 Jul 2020

oldbutnotdead said:
There's a lot of discussion about the new (in England) requirement for EICR for rented properties.

where can I see this requirement?

edit

found it

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2020/9780111191934

"Interpretation 2" says:

"“electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018(5);"

so it does specificaly say 18th edition.

And

"2. What do the Electrical Safety Standards in the Private Rented Sector (England) Regulations 2020 require?"

says

"Landlords of privately rented accommodation must:

Ensure national standards for electrical safety are met. These are set out in the 18th edition of the ‘Wiring Regulations’, which are published as British Standard 7671.
Ensure the electrical installations in their rented properties are inspected and tested by a qualified and competent person at least every 5 years."

So not sloppy.

But a significant change from 2016 when 309 Tory MPs voted against making a requirement that rented homes must be fit for human habitation.

The Grenfell disaster occurred in 2017.

EFLImpudence · 5 Jul 2020

Posted by Motorbiking on Tuesday
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...onsumer-unit-replacement.548144/#post-4673867

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/312/part/1/made

"“electrical safety standards” means the standards for electrical installations in the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations, published by the Institution of Engineering and Technology and the British Standards Institution as BS 7671: 2018(3)"

john4703 · 5 Jul 2020

I am in Scotland and look after a couple of properties for a charity. These houses are let out by an agent. I received this as an email from the agent:

Hi John,
Our electrician has been out for the periodic inspection and it has been noted that the property still has an old fuse board which is now not up to standard with current electrical regulations. Unfortunately to move the new tenant in, the fuse board will require upgrading.
The cost of the board is £340.00. Please let me know if you wish to proceed with this.

I felt I could have legitimately replied that regulations are not retrospective but knowing it was a board with rewirable fuses and as far as I could remember no RCD protection I said to go ahead. I judged it was safer for the tenant if it was done.

EFLImpudence · 5 Jul 2020

That's a different matter if you decide to do it.

Are the agents correct in their instructions?

What if the Government decided to force all home owners in their own properties to do the same?

JohnD · 5 Jul 2020

EFLImpudence said:
It is highly unlikely that that is what they meant.

but it is what they said.

john4703 · 5 Jul 2020

EFLImpudence said:
That's a different matter if you decide to do it.

Are the agents correct in their instructions?

What if the Government decided to force all home owners in their own properties to do the same?

I think the electrician was wrong to try to apply regs retrospectively. As I said I judged it to be a safe thing to do and it was only 10 days rent. The property was empty so a good time to upgrade.
I agree if it was in my house I could not afford to upgrade every time the regs change. I wonder if the DNO would have to move the plastic covered meter from about the only door in my flat?

EFLImpudence · 5 Jul 2020

JohnD said:
but it is what they said.

It is.

Do you know that they know what it entails?

JohnD · 5 Jul 2020

no, but having written certain documents, I'm pretty sure they will have written with great skill and care, and gone through a detailed review process including subject experts.

Saying "it's what I said but not what I meant" is not a good excuse for statutory instruments.

EFLImpudence · 5 Jul 2020

Ok.

Can we then interpret

"3.—(1) A private landlord(1) who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must—
(a)ensure that the electrical safety standards are met during any period when the residential premises(2) are occupied under a specified tenancy;"

as meaning that carrying out an EICR to the latest requirements (18th), which is always the case, does not mean that everything in the installation has to meet those latest requirements because BS7671 does not state that they must to be considered safe.

DetlefSchmitz · 5 Jul 2020

Well, I have no interest in this (I am not a landlord), but I skimmed the regulation (i.e. read beyond the first page). I would say a reasonable first interpretation would be that the landlord must obtain a report based on the report design in the latest BS7671, and if that report requires something to be put right, it must. I was always of the belief that an EICR did not require not meeting the latest regulations as a reason for insisting on work being done.

Edit: looks like EFLI beat me to it again.

JohnD · 5 Jul 2020

EFLImpudence said:
must—
(a)ensure that the electrical safety standards are met

is what it says.

And it says that "the electrical safety standards" means 18th.

What do you think is open to interpretation?

DetlefSchmitz · 5 Jul 2020

JohnD said:
And it says that "the electrical safety standards" means 18th.

What do you think is open to interpretation?

And the standards say that you must fix anything in an existing installation that an EICR requires you to fix.

EFLImpudence · 5 Jul 2020

...but not everything that is marked - C3 "improvement recommended".

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Is it worth changing this consumer unit?

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