2 Electrians differing reports

[ban-all-sheds]

OTOH, if the OP is going to be having a lot of work done anyway, adding new circuits, splitting existing ones, replacing all accessories and adding extra new ones, replacing the CU, then so much of what is already installed will end up being exposed, worked on, tested etc that I question the point of shelling out for a formal EICR first.

If a full rewire is really called for then that will become apparent pretty soon, and if not then as long as he is using a trustworthy electrician who won't look for ways to rip him off, then the cost of the EICR will probably go quite some way to cover any incidental "gotta replace this bit"s that crop up along the way.

But as I say, it does depend on how much work is going to be done irrespective of the condition of the existing wiring.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If the house had a complete rewire 20 years ago, it's very unlikely that it would need a major re-wire now

But not impossible.

It would at some time have had rubber cables, and 20 years ago could well have been when they were replaced. Or when they were just cut back and PVC jointed on by a cowboy so that everything looked OK at the switches and sockets and CU.

 

[AMCLS1]

If the house had a complete rewire 20 years ago, it's very unlikely that it would need a major re-wire now

But not impossible.

It would at some time have had rubber cables, and 20 years ago could well have been when they were replaced. Or when they were just cut back and PVC jointed on by a cowboy so that everything looked OK at the switches and sockets and CU.

If that is the case then could we chase back to double check as an extra safe guard?

 

[JohnW2]

If the house had a complete rewire 20 years ago, it's very unlikely that it would need a major re-wire now

But not impossible. It would at some time have had rubber cables, and 20 years ago could well have been when they were replaced. Or when they were just cut back and PVC jointed on by a cowboy so that everything looked OK at the switches and sockets and CU.

That's why I said "complete" rewire - which would not have left any rubber cable in service.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

It would at some time have had rubber cables, and 20 years ago could well have been when they were replaced. Or when they were just cut back and PVC jointed on by a cowboy so that everything looked OK at the switches and sockets and CU.

If that is the case then could we chase back to double check as an extra safe guard?

IMO, this discussion is at risk of going 'OTT'. If you wanted to be absolutely sure that no such 'cowboy' activities had taken place in the past, you would have to expose almost every inch of every cable - and, by the time you'd done that, you might as well do the 'complete re-wire'. However, a competent electrician would be able to get a pretty good 'feel' for the quality of the work which had been undertaken, and hence probably form an opinion that it was very unlikely that there were any 'hidden horrors' - although there could obviously be no absolute certainty unless most of your house was 'ripped apart'! I would suspect that most people would probably decide to live with that tiny uncertainty, rather than 'have their house ripped apart'!

.. and, of course, there were cowboys in operation 12 months ago, as well as 20 years ago, so even if you were moving into a house which was rewired last year, there would still be similar 'uncertainties'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

That type of cut'n'shut "rewire" does happen, but I don't know how common it is.

Really you have to think about what you'll be having done whatever. If floorboards are going to be coming up anyway, circuits added or split anyway, sockets and switches added and moved anyway, then an EICR isn't going to find any problems which won't be found during the course of the work.

You can look under floorboards yourself - you might even be able to move around under the ground floor ones. (TIP - if you can and you do, have someone there in case you should get stuck, but not the mate who would think it funny to nail the boards back once you're down there )

When you've got that woodchip off see if there's any dodgy plastering over light switch drops already in need of repair, and expose the cable.

 

[JohnW2]

That type of cut'n'shut "rewire" does happen, but I don't know how common it is.

One suspects and hopes that it's very uncommon.

Really you have to think about what you'll be having done whatever. If floorboards are going to be coming up anyway, circuits added or split anyway, sockets and switches added and moved anyway, then an EICR isn't going to find any problems which won't be found during the course of the work.

That's essentially true in terms of 'inspection', although one would still need an electrician to identify all 'inspection-detectable' issues, since it's obviously not just a case of excluding the presence of rubber cable.

However, if I were moving into a new house, and if it were not for the fact that I could do the testing myself, I think I would probably want to have the installation 'fully tested', as well as inspected (which, in effect, means an EICR), even if there were no suggestion that any 'rewire' (or, indeed, any work on the electrical installation at all) was necessarily required.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm not sure how many times I have to say IF the OP is going to be having significant word done ANYWAY then an EICR isn't worth it before you realise what the circumstances are where I'm saying don't bother with an EICR.

 

[JohnW2]

I'm not sure how many times I have to say IF the OP is going to be having significant word done ANYWAY then an EICR isn't worth it before you realise what the circumstances are where I'm saying don't bother with an EICR.

That's obviously something the OP needs to discuss with his electrician. IF , in the course of undertaking "significant work" the electrician was effectively going to carry out all the inspections and tests that would be undertaken as part of an EICR, and cost that in to the charge for the "significant work", then, obviously, there would be no point in having a prior, separate, EICR undertaken.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Well yes, but if "significant work" includes some/most/all of

• Replacing all existing accessories
• Removing/moving adding accessories
• Removing/moving/adding lights
• Adding extra circuits
• Dividing existing circuits
• Installing a new CU

what problems are likely to not be found that would be by an EICR?

 

[JohnW2]

Well yes, but if "significant work" includes some/most/all of .... what problems are likely to not be found that would be by an EICR?

As I said, that's what the OP would need to discuss with the electrician. As I understand it, a good few of the electricians here wouldn't do things like replacing CUs without first (literally or effectively) undertaking an EICR.

Kind Regards,

 

[sparkwright]

If the house had a complete rewire 20 years ago, it's very unlikely that it would need a major re-wire now

But not impossible.

It would at some time have had rubber cables, and 20 years ago could well have been when they were replaced. Or when they were just cut back and PVC jointed on by a cowboy so that everything looked OK at the switches and sockets and CU.

The above is worth noting.

If a house was FULLY rewired 20 years, I would expect the wiring to be good, possibly a new consumer unit needed, and some visual checks and testing.

However, sometimes people say a rewire has been done, and some older cable gets left in because it's not too bad, too difficult to replace, etc. Any older wiring would certainly need checking. For example, some lighting cable, 50 years ago, might not have an earth, yet still seem in good condition. Or, as mentioned, old rubber cable could have been left in.

I would like to think a house rewired 20 years ago would have had all bad wiring removed. Yet it all depends on who has done it.

However, no point rewiring the whole place if it doesn't need it.

 

[JohnW2]

If the house had a complete rewire 20 years ago, it's very unlikely that it would need a major re-wire now

But not impossible.... It would at some time have had rubber cables, and 20 years ago could well have been when they were replaced. Or when they were just cut back and PVC jointed on by a cowboy so that everything looked OK at the switches and sockets and CU.

The above is worth noting. .... If a house was FULLY rewired 20 years, I would expect the wiring to be good, possibly a new consumer unit needed, and some visual checks and testing.

Quite so - and that's why I keep stressing the "if" and "complete rewire" in what I've been saying.

However, sometimes people say a rewire has been done, and some older cable gets left in because it's not too bad, too difficult to replace, etc. Any older wiring would certainly need checking. For example, some lighting cable, 50 years ago, might not have an earth, yet still seem in good condition. Or, as mentioned, old rubber cable could have been left in.

Indeed, which is why I've been saying that a pretty full I&T exercise is required, whether called an EICR or as part of the "significant works" to which BAS has been referring. Of course, no sort of standard I&T exercise is going to detect the wrong doing who, 20 years ago, cunningly left rubber cable in service only where it was buried in plaster (or wherever)!

I would like to think a house rewired 20 years ago would have had all bad wiring removed. Yet it all depends on who has done it. ... However, no point rewiring the whole place if it doesn't need it.

Exactly, and I hope it's been clear that I've also been saying that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[AMCLS1]

Just wanted to add in that I have had the NICEIC visual test report back and it states under general condition of the installation: Good condition.

Under the declaration it states that the system is unsatisfactory but we were aware of that since it is old so the CU needs updating and it needs the water stop earthing.

He states that the wiring system is twin and earth so this is positive.

So overall a good report I think. Thank you for your help on the matter.